If you look at my video I’m just using a 8” shoot n see on a white background. I don’t think this is that formal as long as we are all using the same size target. The object is just to get people out shooting anyway.Originally Posted by TomMcC
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Senior Member
If you look at my video I’m just using a 8” shoot n see on a white background. I don’t think this is that formal as long as we are all using the same size target. The object is just to get people out shooting anyway.
Senior Member
Cool, I got to try this....see what my 64 yr old eyes and bod got left.
Senior Member
Love this. You’re out getting some while healthy 22 year olds fiddle around with their buffer weights and spring colors. Be sure to let us know how you did!
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Will do. I do shoot 3gun every month, many times twice in the month. Would it be OK to use a little magnification? In the game we shoot 8-10" steel at 50-60 yds many times offhand. In those times I dial in 2-2.5X, helps me alot. But if this isn't cool I try it at 1X.
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There’s no rules when it comes to that. Use whatever gun, with whatever optic, firing whatever ammunition you wish.
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Drill #2 and drill #3 video links not working for me. What is the distance for drill #2?
...Dig this thread a ton, btw. Thanks, Euro.
"I don't just want gun rights... I want individual liberty, a culture of self-reliance....I want the whole bloody thing." - Kim du Toit
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The range I'm shooting at has lots of rocks and little sticker burs. Next time I do the drill, I'll be wearing knee pads and gloves so I'm not concerned about either. I won't be as "careful" when dropping to my knee or dropping to prone.Eurodriver wrote: Where do you think you can improve?
The shot timer adds more stress than I would have expected. My mindset became "beat the clock", instead of making sure to breathe properly, and focus on the target. I actually tried to pull the trigger once without letting it reset. The reset on the G S3G trigger is very short, so this takes effort, and not in a good way!
My mag changes are pretty fast, though undoubtedly could be faster, or more correctly, be more efficient. Who engages the safety when making a mag change? I can see reasons to both engage and not engage.
I noticed when working against the timer, I felt like my changes weren't fast enough, so by trying to go faster, I fumbled thru them a little bit more.
I've only had a timer for about a month, and it's certainly changing the way I train. It creates stress that didn't exist before. This is a good thing IMO.
Me too. I short load most of my mags to incorporate more changes. Left handed is interesting.I have always spent a ton of time practicing reloads and transitions to different positions because that’s free time.
I agree...knee pads and gloves!The faster I reload or drop to a knee the more time I have to focus on getting rounds on target.
I think the follow up shots were better as the can increased the weight and reduced the muzzle movement, but may not be faster without better recoil control. A friend was watching me shoot unsuppressed and said it looked like gun never moved, but the red dot was all over the place in my sight line. I need to work on stabilizing and managing the recoil better. I actually spent my range time today working on this along with reaction time.You were also shooting suppressed which in my experience actually slows you down.
100% agree! Better to be accurate than fast. Will work on making the shots by breathing better, managing the recoil. I may try incorporating some sort of rhythm too. Not entirely sure.Misses penalize you more than time, so try to focus on shooting clean and then get faster from there.
Will try again next week. This is a great drill and a good challenge...at least for me.
Senior Member
Thanks Novak. Vids should be working again. Distance is 100 yards.
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Pistol drills use a timer or moving target.
Use no larger than 18" silhouettes
7 yards
Put 4 rounds in your mag, chamber one round with 3 rounds in mag. Holster pistol.
Load your spare mag with 4 rounds.
Draw pistol, 4 rounds Center mass.
Side step during reload then 4 rounds Center mass.
5 seconds total is acceptable, all rounds have to be COM.
Remember to check surroundings after.
Next drill
10 yards
Put 2 rounds in mag, chamber one round with one round in mag.
Load spare mag with 3 rounds.
Low ready to 2 rounds COM
Side step reload
2 rounds COM 1 round in head
4 seconds is acceptable.
Remember to check surroundings after
Might seem unattainable at first, but give it a few tries and you'll get it. Practice proper draw strokes at home, draw stroke is very important, practice it right or don't practice it at all. Your draw strokes should be around 1 second or under, but nobody is perfect, I suggest being safe and don't go faster than is safe for you.
After a few hundred proper draw strokes you will probably be at the 1 second mark.
Also, side step different ways, don't side step right every time.
Last edited by 5.56 Bonded SP; 10-21-17 at 18:39.
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Don't want to hi-jack, but instilling movement is kind of a passion of mine. I think the gift of instinctive movement off the threat axis is one of the greatest survival tools an instructor can pass on.
The drills you outlined involved lateral movement - side to side. Consider several axis of movement: (this snippet is from a pistol instructor handout that I wrote)
Our scenario is that we are drawing in response to a weapon being presented at close range. At first glance it would seem that there are several options available to an officer in this situation:
1) Draw in response to the threat. This is likely to be the response that most static range training evokes. The problem is that we have done nothing to seize the advantage and make the subject react to our action – the subject merely continues their already ongoing plan of action. Common sense also tells us that we aren’t going to outdraw someone who is already in the process of drawing or presenting their weapon.
2) Move back while drawing in response to the threat. This is one of the most commonly taught responses to a close range assault. The problem is that the subject who is armed with a firearm is not forced to do change their plan/do anything different to hit the target, US!! – they merely continue the actions they have already begun. Additionally, there is the potential for the officer to stumble as they back away. This technique does initially gain advantage if the assailant is armed with a cutting or striking instrument - it does create more reactionary gap. Another consideration for close range assaults is that the subject can move more quickly forward than the officer can backward.
3) Move into the threat while drawing and/or blocking. This tactic has the advantage of being counter-intuitive; it is not the expected response in this situation. This tactic has the potential to cause a substantial shifting of gears in the suspect’s planning process. Officers would primarily benefit from this tactic in an extremely close range assault.
4) Move laterally to the left or right while drawing in response to the threat. This option does require the subject to alter their plan in order to engage the target. This tactic also gains advantage if the assailant is moving at us with a cutting or striking instrument - it moves the officer off the straight-line axis of movement by the subject.
5) Move diagonally forward to the left or right while drawing in response to the threat. This tactic is likely to create even more lag time in the subject. As mentioned earlier, moving into the threat is counter intuitive and may, in and of itself, create additional lag time in the subject. Movement into the threat coupled with diagonal movement requires the subject to move more in order to track the moving target. It requires more movement, and is, therefore, probably more difficult for the assailant to track and engage a target moving diagonally into them than a target moving laterally with no movement forward or back.
6) Moving diagonally to the rear while drawing in response to the threat. As mentioned above, movement into the threat coupled with diagonal movement requires the subject to move more in order to track the moving target. Movement to the rear while moving laterally requires less movement for the subject to engage at moderate ranges, at closer ranges this tactics serves to create distance and if the assailant is moving at the officer with a cutting or striking instrument - it moves the officer off the straight-line axis of movement by the subject.
Attachment 48141
Considering the pros and cons of the six listed tactics, it appears to me that moving diagonally forward while drawing in response to the threat is the best overall response. If I had to choose one tactic to teach, this would be it. But, you should drill your officers on each one - train them, don't just stand there, MOVE!
Of course if you are going to practice this you need to start dry drilling it and go from there. When you go to the range you need to make sure that the drill falls within the range rules, and that the range's berm will contain all the rounds fired.
Sorry for the short hi-jack, but, as I said, this was kind of a mission for me while I was working.
Last edited by 26 Inf; 10-21-17 at 20:24.
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