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Thread: "Overlength" AR Pistols and CCW

  1. #1
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    "Overlength" AR Pistols and CCW

    We know that under Federal law, an AR pistol over 26" OAL becomes the same kind of "Other Firearm" as a Mossy Shockwave or a TAC-14. Admittedly State laws will vary, but I was wondering how many states have an upper-length limit on a CCW-eligible pistol?

    Here in WA, I've only found RCW 9.41.010 to go by:
    "(20) "Pistol" means any firearm with a barrel less than sixteen inches in length, or is designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand.
    Big two punchlines:
    1. Does exceeding 26" make it no longer covered by my CPL? Right now with a 10.3" barrel and an Vltor A5 tube (3/4" longer than standard) I'm at 25.925" bare, 27.75" with brake, and another inch and change of growth coming from the LAW Tactical sidefolder when I get it bought.
    2. Do I measure from end of buffer tube to the muzzle crown, or the end of the (not pinned) brake?
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    I'm not 100% sure but when I lived in Michigan i think the oal was without accessories such as an unpinned muzzle device. Can't remember if federal is the same way.

    Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk
    Last edited by zombiescometh; 10-23-17 at 01:51.
    "The most important rule in a gunfight is: Always win and cheat if necessary." ~ Clint Smith

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    Quote Originally Posted by zombiescometh View Post
    I'm not 100% sure but when I lived in Michigan i think the oal was without accessories such as an unpinned muzzle device. Can't remember if federal is the same way.

    Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk
    Excellent illustration re variance... IIRC, Federal law on rifles measured with telestocks extended while MI measures collapsed.
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    Do people actually CCW AR pistols?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eurodriver View Post
    Do people actually CCW AR pistols?
    There are some who carry 'em as Bugout Bag/Truck Guns and the odd rare case as a PDW, due to a quirk of WA state law among other jurisdictions... a loaded rifle in your vehicle is No Bueno, but a loaded pistol in the same caliber is potentially fine--as long as you have a CPL, otherwise it has to be unloaded in trunk same as a rifle. (State law, not Federal--WA Fish & Wildlife is paranoid about "poachers in vehicles" while not so interested in actual effective measures to stop REAL poaching rings.) For example, the gun I'm going to be attempting your drills thread with, described in the OP, was designed with the intent that it be suitable for Briefcase Carry--I schlep a *big* bag, because I haul a monster of a laptop that could be better described as a "man-portable data-warehouse system." Even then, my primary-carry is still the same 1911 I've packed every day since I was first legal.

    I don't write the rules, amigo, I just try to work within them and when they allow me to exploit them to my advantage make the most of it...
    Last edited by Diamondback; 10-23-17 at 06:51.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondback View Post
    There are some who carry 'em as Bugout Bag/Truck Guns and the odd rare case as a PDW, due to a quirk of WA state law among other jurisdictions... a loaded rifle in your vehicle is No Bueno, but a loaded pistol in the same caliber is potentially fine--as long as you have a CPL, otherwise it has to be unloaded in trunk same as a rifle.

    I don't write the rules, amigo, I just try to work within them and when they allow me to exploit them to my advantage make the most of it...
    Gotcha. That makes sense. Florida for a long time was the same way - but I think they made the gun laws more streamlined and did away with that requirement.

    I started my shooting life in Hawaii where AR pistols and NFA are both illegal. Sucked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eurodriver View Post
    Gotcha. That makes sense. Florida for a long time was the same way - but I think they made the gun laws more streamlined and did away with that requirement.

    I started my shooting life in Hawaii where AR pistols and NFA are both illegal. Sucked.
    We had all NFA banned in '94, and only just got SBR and Suppressor back in the last few years--even cops couldn't have suppressors, and while existing in-state MG's were grandfathered they couldn't even be transferred on death of owner--they had to either leave the state or be forfeited. (OTOH, they allow various Corporate Gestapos to own MG's and issue 'em to their hired Paul Blarts and Barney Fifes...)

    Also, an AR pistol allows more flexibility of response in an Active Shooter incident--a bunch of grizzled old vets and I over at Gunhub worked the math, and at the range of the Vegas shooting while there's no way in Hell I'd attempt a 400-yard Return Fire with my 1911, a Mk 18 URG on a pistol lower might work if you could line up a good shot and quickly work the windage/elevation/bullet drop math.
    Last edited by Diamondback; 10-23-17 at 07:07.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eurodriver View Post
    Do people actually CCW AR pistols?
    Do you even operate, Broh?
    Colt > BCM

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondback View Post
    Excellent illustration re variance... IIRC, Federal law on rifles measured with telestocks extended while MI measures collapsed.
    Correct!

    Quote Originally Posted by zombiescometh View Post
    I'm not 100% sure but when I lived in Michigan i think the oal was without accessories such as an unpinned muzzle device. Can't remember if federal is the same way.

    Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk
    I wish I could find some legal precedent on this for my piece of mind. So far I found the AG opinion on measuring collapsing stocks (and I'm assuming brace by extension) is "shortest operable length." I would like a 10-10.5" with a Maxim CQB Brace to come out under 26" OAL for a pistol designation in MI. It gets tricky if not impossible when a muzzle device is added. Trying to calculate OAL before I build is also proving to be a challenge.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eurodriver View Post
    Do people actually CCW AR pistols?
    I would like the option to have a loaded 5.56 in my vehicle. Here in MI a CPL is only good for pistols, so you can't carry a loaded rifle concealed. State law defines in a vehicle as concealed.
    Last edited by Packeagle; 11-01-17 at 10:34.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Packeagle View Post
    Correct!


    I wish I could find some legal precedent on this for my piece of mind. So far I found the AG opinion on measuring collapsing stocks (and I'm assuming brace by extension) is "shortest operable length." I would like a 10-10.5" with a Maxim CQB Brace to come out under 26" OAL for a pistol designation in MI. It gets tricky if not impossible when a muzzle device is added. Trying to calculate OAL before I build is also proving to be a challenge.
    Thats how i felt when i lived there so just in case i was running my 10.3 with a2 and a phase5 hex2 buffer and it came in at 26 inches and its not that hard to adjust shooting without a stock/brace
    "The most important rule in a gunfight is: Always win and cheat if necessary." ~ Clint Smith

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