"Overlength" AR Pistols and CCW

[Diamondback]

First thing for you Michiganders, you can forget an A5 buffer system or a LAW sidefolder if you're trying to stay under 26 with a 10.3 or 10.5, and you're gonna be VERY limited on Flash Hiders--you're already looking at a "bare" length of 25.175 with no MD and a shorty tube. With 5/8" of overlap for threading, you're looking at an MD length limit of less than 1.45". (Less because of crush or timing washer, call those about a sixteenth, so about 1.38".)

[Packeagle]

This is good info. Could you clarify what "shorty tube" you are using to come up with that OAL? Standard pistol buffer tube or something shorter?

[Diamondback]

This is good info. Could you clarify what "shorty tube" you are using to come up with that OAL? Standard pistol buffer tube or something shorter?

I mean a standard pistol tube, say a Brownells or the TacFire I started with for my "cheap crappy pistol kit", as opposed to the 3/4"-longer KAK tube or Vltor A5 which my build presently has.

For math, my 10.3 with an A5 and bare muzzle is 25.925", so a 10.5"/A5 would miss Michigan Legal by 1/8". I back-figured from my build's OAL, deducting the 3/4" difference. For a more conventional 10.5, your flash-hider/brake length limit would be around 1.18".

[titsonritz]

So in other words an A5 RE, a LAW folder with a 12.5" KINO upper is a might long

[Packeagle]

I would go with the 10.3" barrel. That would allow me 1.38" on the muzzle device. So something like the Short Muzzle Brake from Brownells. Awfully close!

[Diamondback]

So in other words an A5 RE, a LAW folder with a 12.5" KINO upper is a might long

And that 14.5" Unpinned MilSpec M4 Upper/Pistol Lower I was considering is a FUHGEDDABOUTIT in MI... Bare-muzzle with a LAW and A5, MI's limited to nine-inchers. Less if you add a brake... if I were designing a build for the cousins up around Traverse City, I'd go Geissele Super 42 instead of the A5 system for the length savings.

[Packeagle]

And that 14.5" Unpinned MilSpec M4 Upper/Pistol Lower I was considering is a FUHGEDDABOUTIT in MI... Bare-muzzle with a LAW and A5, MI's limited to nine-inchers. Less if you add a brake... if I were designing a build for the cousins up around Traverse City, I'd go Geissele Super 42 instead of the A5 system for the length savings.

As I understand it, it would be a firearm and not a pistol. Still legal in MI just not able to take advantage of the CPL to transport loaded.

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[Diamondback]

As I understand it, it would be a firearm and not a pistol. Still legal in MI just not able to take advantage of the CPL to transport loaded.

Right... which defeats one of the points of a Rifle-Caliber "Pistol" PDW. I wouldn't even try to carry a loaded "M4 Pistol" here in WA, just in case the MD counted toward our 16" barrel limit--it'd be just for the Freak Show factor, a 16" Middy stretched version would be better for outdoor GP and a Kino or GL/SSC better for indoors/CQB.

Now if you could just get your Legislature to make that length limit a "Permanent Length"... (i.e., collapsed rear to barrel crown if MD unpinned, to MD end only if permanently pinned-and-welded)

[indianalex01]

I have a Colt 11.5 upper with a pistol registered lower. Is it still considered a pistol? Sig sells the M400 11.5 pistol and its marketed as a pistol. Thanks

[Diamondback]

I have a Colt 11.5 upper with a pistol registered lower. Is it still considered a pistol? Sig sells the M400 11.5 pistol and its marketed as a pistol. Thanks

Alex, we're all talking two different cans of worms here. Federally it's a "pistol," but depending on your state's CCW laws it may not be Loaded Carry Legal. Here in Washington where I type from, it'd be Good2Go (sub-16" barrel, one-hand operation)... in Michigan, if the OAL is 26" or more you wouldn't be able to carry it loaded, Minnesota probably has its own whole different set of rules to play by for CCW.

Not every firearm that can be legally owned can be legally packed on your Good Guy Card... for example, in Oklahoma a Guncrafter Industries .50 is not Carry Kosher, but slap a .45ACP top half on and you're good again. (OK caps CCW at .45 caliber.)