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Thread: Suppressor Design - What's next?

  1. #1
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    Suppressor Design - What's next?

    American inventor Hiram Percy Maxim, the son of Maxim gun inventor Hiram Stevens Maxim, is usually credited with inventing and selling the first commercially successful models circa 1902 (patented March 30, 1909). Maxim gave his device the trademarked name Maxim Silencer and they were regularly advertised in sporting goods magazines. The muffler for internal combustion engines was developed in parallel with the firearm suppressor by Maxim in the early 20th century, using many of the same techniques to provide quieter-running engines (in many English-speaking countries automobile mufflers are called silencers).Former president of the United States Theodore Roosevelt was known to purchase and use Maxim Silencers.

    Fast forward to 2017...current designs are strikingly similar to the original invention from over 100 years ago. There have been some evolutionary engineering developments such as lighter weight e.g. the use of Titanium, modular design for easier cleaning or adjustable length, more stable mounting interfaces and recently 3D design such as DD Wave. Overall, the db reduction appears only slightly improved in the last decade or two. The boom of the hypersonic sonic detonation wave in front of the exothermic reactions of the muzzle will be a monumental physics challenge to address.

    So - what do you think the next evolutionary or revolutionary step for suppressors will be? Integral designs like the SilencerCo Maxim? Lighter weight via heat tolerant plastics/ceramics such as: Vespel ® which can withstand 350 hours of 748* F heat? Will it be the ammunition itself?
    Politician's Prefer Unarmed Peasants

  2. #2
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    Suppressors? The rifle this site is named after hasn’t changed in almost 70 years. Let’s focus on that first.

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    Better materials would be a good step forward, but I don't see a way to fundamentally change the mechanics of how a suppressor works. There's no alternative to slowing down the release of gasses.

  4. #4
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    Lots of gains.

    We first went supersonic in 1947 and just now are figuring out how to do it without the associated sonic boom. Once that happens air travel times will plummet.

    Its expensive "rocket science" to figure out how to control and release the suppressor gasses. The gains will be slow unless a group like DARPA decides to drop some money on research.

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    We first went supersonic before smokeless powder, not that the results are "good".

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    I live behind the Iron Curtain here in the People's Republic of Illinois. This is not a suppressor friendly state. My knowledge of these gizmos is a bit limited. The OSS cans seem to be the next big thing in suppressor design. Why havnt these caught on??

    osssuppressors.com

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    What's next?

    One word:


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    Quote Originally Posted by signal4l View Post
    I live behind the Iron Curtain here in the People's Republic of Illinois. This is not a suppressor friendly state. My knowledge of these gizmos is a bit limited. The OSS cans seem to be the next big thing in suppressor design. Why havnt these caught on??

    osssuppressors.com
    Reflex designs such as this in theory offer much more internal capacity volume for the gases to expand into. Problem is that the gases propelling the bullet tend to travel with the bullet in a linear fashion and only a portion of the gases goes into the baffle area (or path, in the OSS example suppressor example). That is really too bad as reflex designs with a 2 point attaching system are a much better system of mounting the suppressor , one point at the barrel exit threads and the other a few inches back on the barrel. Stronger, more rigid, and much less chance of bending the threads as in a single point system. Reflex cans tend to work better with lower pressure pistol calibers than higher pressure rifle calibers. Another drawback for reflex cans is a lot more weight as they are bigger. The early M110 SASS had a 2 point reflex can IIRC.

    As a fun example, blow through a straw at your hand and move your hand back and forth, in front and to the sides of the straw. In front of the straw as you move your hand farther away the cone of force you feel on your palm gets larger in area but less pressure. Feel around the sides at the tip of the straw, there isn't much pressure at the tip, but you can start to feel some pressure as you move your hand forward. The gas is leaving the straw in a cone pattern, the same way it does in a firearm barrel. So the further in front of the muzzle you have a baffle, the more effective it becomes. Physical size is your limiting factor (Silencerco has a youtube video of their "magic staff", which is literally a 4 foot long suppressor. Was it quiet? hell yea, but it was also ridiculous in size)

    There has been A LOT of suppressor design advancement in the last decade. Primarily in baffle design and materials used. Most mfgrs have also gone to a single point mount with baffles forward of muzzle as they are more effective than baffles behind the muzzle (straw example). There is a lot of variables in a suppressor, not just gas flow but wave theory and propagation also play a big part. This is why effective "K" baffles are egg shaped and not round where the bullet passes through, they are setting up a sawtooth pattern wave form to set up pressure nodes attempting to cancel some of that energy. This also influences backpressure and might start to affect accuracy.

    So, to answer your question, there are lighter, smaller, better designs out there than the OSS

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigershilone View Post
    Reflex designs such as this in theory offer much more internal capacity volume for the gases to expand into. Problem is that the gases propelling the bullet tend to travel with the bullet in a linear fashion and only a portion of the gases goes into the baffle area (or path, in the OSS example suppressor example). That is really too bad as reflex designs with a 2 point attaching system are a much better system of mounting the suppressor , one point at the barrel exit threads and the other a few inches back on the barrel. Stronger, more rigid, and much less chance of bending the threads as in a single point system. Reflex cans tend to work better with lower pressure pistol calibers than higher pressure rifle calibers. Another drawback for reflex cans is a lot more weight as they are bigger. The early M110 SASS had a 2 point reflex can IIRC.

    As a fun example, blow through a straw at your hand and move your hand back and forth, in front and to the sides of the straw. In front of the straw as you move your hand farther away the cone of force you feel on your palm gets larger in area but less pressure. Feel around the sides at the tip of the straw, there isn't much pressure at the tip, but you can start to feel some pressure as you move your hand forward. The gas is leaving the straw in a cone pattern, the same way it does in a firearm barrel. So the further in front of the muzzle you have a baffle, the more effective it becomes. Physical size is your limiting factor (Silencerco has a youtube video of their "magic staff", which is literally a 4 foot long suppressor. Was it quiet? hell yea, but it was also ridiculous in size)

    There has been A LOT of suppressor design advancement in the last decade. Primarily in baffle design and materials used. Most mfgrs have also gone to a single point mount with baffles forward of muzzle as they are more effective than baffles behind the muzzle (straw example). There is a lot of variables in a suppressor, not just gas flow but wave theory and propagation also play a big part. This is why effective "K" baffles are egg shaped and not round where the bullet passes through, they are setting up a sawtooth pattern wave form to set up pressure nodes attempting to cancel some of that energy. This also influences backpressure and might start to affect accuracy.

    So, to answer your question, there are lighter, smaller, better designs out there than the OSS
    Thank you for the highly informative response. I learned something new today

  10. #10
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    Also because they weigh twice what all of the current design of lightweight cans do. Heavier can = more suck when carrying it and more POI shift. I haven't shot a gun with an OSS yet, I would if I could, but I certainly won't be buying one just to check it out when they weigh 20oz for the Helix and 22 for the Elite. Not to mention price, although I've finally decided I won't use price as such a big part of silencer decision, anymore.

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