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Thread: Suppressor Design - What's next?

  1. #21
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    Tuuka, I'm well aware of all of these things, believe me. I know you've been in the industry a long time, I've followed your posts online for the last 10+ years, and you're obviously very knowledgeable and I appreciate your input. I was extremely skeptical as well, as one should be especially in this industry. But when a silencer beats over 30+ other rifle silencers by such a significant margin in side by side comparisons to the same MIL STD positions, same host, same ammo, same day, etc repeatedly, it tends to make one a believer. Other US manufacturers have seen and heard it in person, it is very real.

    I was also following that Arfcom thread and knew exactly how that was going to go. This is not that.

    As for range day at SHOT, you'll most likely be able to see us at the Zev Technologies area. As the date approaches I'll keep you in the loop.

    Now you guys gotta start selling your cans in the US, I've been eye balling them for years.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuukka View Post
    Hi,

    Sorry, but something is off here.

    I have been in the industry for a long time and I have very serious doubts of a centrefire supersonic load being mid 120s one metre to the side of the muzzle.

    c. 133-134 dB one metre to the side of the muzzle is pretty much where it is at the lowest with centrefire calibres and super sonic ammo, unless CGS has somehow been able to change the laws of physics.

    The last person that claimed similar revolutionary numbers recently at AR15.com did not come up with the numbers he claimed, IIRC it was sub 120 dB at the shooters ear on an AR platform.

    I am putting this in the same category. I will be coming over for SHOT, will you be on any of the range days?

    I would love to be proved wrong.

    Best Regards!

    Tuukka Jokinen
    Sales and Marketing Manager
    Ase Utra sound suppressors
    CGS Group LLC
    Silencers, firing devices/initiators/detonators, and custom precision rifles.

    www.cgsgroup.com
    sales@cgsgroup.com

  2. #22
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    Very true all the sharps rifles were super sonic and many others.
    Serving as a LEO since 1999.
    USPSA# A56876 A Class
    Firearms Instructor
    Armorer for AR15, 1911, Glocks and Remington 870 shotguns.

  3. #23
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    This video was posted on TOS with respect to the CGS 9mm can:

    https://www.instagram.com/p/BZq8idSAtRN/

    I am going to start at the position that this video is legit/un-edited (guy used to post on here as Fireman something and does the youtube reviews). So they have a 9mm suppressor that is *CLOSE* to a Mask with subsonic ammo. If you believe most 9mm suppressors are in the 123db range, then this one is what? 120db? Less?

    I want to believe, man! Send me one for T&E.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alaskapopo View Post
    Very true all the sharps rifles were super sonic and many others.
    Heck, the american longrifle was supersonic. Pretty much everything since the smoothbore musket is, or has had the capability to be. My 38" bbl 54 cal Isaac Haines copy hits 1450fps with just 75grs of powder. But to the main topic...

    It seems where we are at is trading off one attribute for others in dealing with the immutable laws of physics right now. Low volume, low sound level, low backpressure, etc., in a give and take. Materials and manufacturing methods are still moving foward, and I've seen some interesting multi-chamber stuff, but decreasing weight even more and figuring out how to cheat the devil on the universal gas laws seems to be the next step.
    Duane Liptak, Jr.
    Executive Vice President
    Magpul Industries

    info@magpulcore.com

    This is a personal account linked to a personal e-mail. Company affiliation and titles are provided purely for transparency requirements of the host site. Although factual company information may be shared through this account, any opinions expressed are solely those of the account holder, and not necessarily those of Magpul Industries or subsidiaries.

  5. #25
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    Yeah, there are trade offs. I've seen some coaxial cans that had really low back pressure, but with what you give up, it wasn't worth it overall.

  6. #26
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    Of course it's unedited. Adam isn't faking that with any black magic video voodoo trickery. It is what it is. Longer version's on Facebook.

    We certainly don't edit anything. Everything I post comes straight off my iPhone and uploads to my Instagram account. This particular video was done with Freedom Munitions Hush 165gr 9mm. Very quiet ammo, my new favorite. I wasn't even present, this is just Adam and his cameraman with a production version we sent him.

    The first time I used Hush ammo was in Adam's backyard with a Kraken prototype last year in mid September doing exactly what the video depicts and we both about lost our minds with how stupid quiet it was. We had it on a Beretta 92 series which to me seems to be a quieter host than the Glocks. To our ears the 9mm was actually quieter.

    NFA Review is having an event in early December, he actually just posted a thread on it here in the NFA section, which we'll be attending. So if you make it there you can shoot the Kraken to your hearts desire.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rayrevolver View Post
    This video was posted on TOS with respect to the CGS 9mm can:

    https://www.instagram.com/p/BZq8idSAtRN/

    I am going to start at the position that this video is legit/un-edited (guy used to post on here as Fireman something and does the youtube reviews). So they have a 9mm suppressor that is *CLOSE* to a Mask with subsonic ammo. If you believe most 9mm suppressors are in the 123db range, then this one is what? 120db? Less?

    I want to believe, man! Send me one for T&E.
    CGS Group LLC
    Silencers, firing devices/initiators/detonators, and custom precision rifles.

    www.cgsgroup.com
    sales@cgsgroup.com

  7. #27
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    Hi Paco,

    The U.S. market definitely is of interest to us, but we have been fairly busy in many other parts of the world.

    But if we come across the right partner and maybe with the HPA passing at some point in the future, we'll see what happens.

    Let me know what range you will be at SHOT and I'll come say hi ( work email is contact@aseutra.fi )

    This conversation reminded me of this also:

    http://soldiersystems.net/2017/09/29/kraken-suppressor/

    "Capable of metering 114db in accordance with MIL-STD-1474D when mounted on a ZEV G17 host shooting Freedom Munitions 165gr Hush ammunition."

    Our DUAL .22 rimfire suppressor is pretty effective, doing c. 116-117 dB with sub sonic ammo 1 m to the side of the muzzle.

    You are claiming below that with a 9 mm suppressor?

    Then a centrefire calibre rifle suppressor well below 130 dB also?

    I will believe this when a professional, independent source will test those with the right equipment

    Tuukka Jokinen
    Ase Utra sound suppressors
    www.aseutra.fi

  8. #28
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    I'll PM you my contact info as well.

    The rifle silencer and handgun silencer achieve those numbers through different means.

    The 114dB comes from the assistance of that particular ammo, the Hush 165gr as well as their Hush 147gr. Really, really quiet stuff. To myself and Adam Johnson of NFA Review, it did sound quieter than a suppressed 22LR as in the video posted above by Rayrevolver, but that's thanks to that particular ammunition. I'd recommend it if you guys can get some there, it's by far the quietest stuff I've heard. Something you can shoot in the ground at your feet and pretty much hear the action cycle and the impact along with the vibration from the impact through your feet.

    I agree about the independent testing. There's just so few people that do it and even fewer with the proper equipment and the proper environment at their disposal, and then even fewer that you don't have to pay to avoid making it look like favoritism. My plan is to have a number of well known media people come out to New Mexico on my own dime early on in 2018 and have them try it out for themselves. They're welcome to bring their own meters too.

    Like I said, some other manufacturers know what the rifle can's capable of, and they certainly aren't the only ones. We don't just play on the civilian market.

    In the mean time here's another comparison video set. Same day, same ammo (Lapua then Nexus on the Surefire to see if it changed anything), same positions, same host, etc. Ammo is subsonic Lapua 200gr 308 on a 20" 308 bolt gun.

    Surefire 762RC2: https://www.instagram.com/p/Bai1G1dh...pacoramirez101

    CGS Hyperion 300: https://www.instagram.com/p/Bai1pPDB...pacoramirez101

    CGS Kraken 9 just for fun: https://www.instagram.com/p/BayUnDEB...pacoramirez101



    Quote Originally Posted by Tuukka View Post
    Hi Paco,

    The U.S. market definitely is of interest to us, but we have been fairly busy in many other parts of the world.

    But if we come across the right partner and maybe with the HPA passing at some point in the future, we'll see what happens.

    Let me know what range you will be at SHOT and I'll come say hi ( work email is contact@aseutra.fi )

    This conversation reminded me of this also:

    http://soldiersystems.net/2017/09/29/kraken-suppressor/

    "Capable of metering 114db in accordance with MIL-STD-1474D when mounted on a ZEV G17 host shooting Freedom Munitions 165gr Hush ammunition."

    Our DUAL .22 rimfire suppressor is pretty effective, doing c. 116-117 dB with sub sonic ammo 1 m to the side of the muzzle.

    You are claiming below that with a 9 mm suppressor?

    Then a centrefire calibre rifle suppressor well below 130 dB also?

    I will believe this when a professional, independent source will test those with the right equipment
    Last edited by paco ramirez; 10-31-17 at 04:17.
    CGS Group LLC
    Silencers, firing devices/initiators/detonators, and custom precision rifles.

    www.cgsgroup.com
    sales@cgsgroup.com

  9. #29
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    Paco - I was being silly but I want to clear up my statements. Fireman1291 (Adam in real life?) used to post on here all the time. Loved his videos with the multiple cameras/mics. Better yet, he was always quick to answer my PMs and really helped steer me to the Mask and Obsidian.

    I was not doubting that video. I was trying to make the argument that if CGS can make a 9mm (with 165gr Hush) sound pretty close to a 22LR (with subs) in a pistol, then it shouldn't be a stretch to think your center fire rifle cans have potential for better performance. The videos are great and with the BK meter, icing on the cake.

    And as an aside, I might make a cell phone video with a Mask vs Obsidian, dual wielding, and see how they sound. Best 9mm ammo I have is 158gr PPU.

  10. #30
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    Yeah sorry, Fireman1291's real name is Adam Johnson. The Mask and Obsidian are great cans, I highly recommend them. The Obsidian, being the quietest 45ACP can that we know of, has been our gold standard when testing ours. We don't have a Mask yet but that'll change soon. I was just trying to poorly explain that the numbers are achieved through different means. The rifle can, using normal supersonic ammo, will perform better than any other rifle silencer that exist.

    What I'd be interested in is finding out what people most commonly believe is the current quietest rifle silencer and doing a side by side test against that can, if we haven't already done so, and then then post the video.

    As you can imagine it's difficult to get most people to believe anything we say, especially being a company that most people have never even heard of. Usually when a relatively new company pulls out claims like ours it *is* BS, and that makes it really hard to get people to understand.

    ETA, below is another metering comparison. This is Prime 130gr OTM 6.5CM in a 20" bolt gun. It's not 1.6m off the ground, but it is 1 meter left of muzzle. We didn't have a stand at this location that day.

    Silencerco Omega: https://www.instagram.com/p/Ba7-s0lh...pacoramirez101

    CGS Hyperion: https://www.instagram.com/p/Ba7-8AOB...pacoramirez101

    Quote Originally Posted by Rayrevolver View Post
    Paco - I was being silly but I want to clear up my statements. Fireman1291 (Adam in real life?) used to post on here all the time. Loved his videos with the multiple cameras/mics. Better yet, he was always quick to answer my PMs and really helped steer me to the Mask and Obsidian.

    I was not doubting that video. I was trying to make the argument that if CGS can make a 9mm (with 165gr Hush) sound pretty close to a 22LR (with subs) in a pistol, then it shouldn't be a stretch to think your center fire rifle cans have potential for better performance. The videos are great and with the BK meter, icing on the cake.

    And as an aside, I might make a cell phone video with a Mask vs Obsidian, dual wielding, and see how they sound. Best 9mm ammo I have is 158gr PPU.
    Last edited by paco ramirez; 10-31-17 at 23:22.
    CGS Group LLC
    Silencers, firing devices/initiators/detonators, and custom precision rifles.

    www.cgsgroup.com
    sales@cgsgroup.com

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