S&W 1911's

[m60g]

Anyone have any exp. with them? How do you like them?

[scubie02]

I own two of the scandium commanders--a PD and an SC (basically the earlier model to the PD with the "billboard" markings), and used to own one of the 5" steel models. The Smith's tend to be very accurate (despite the horrible crowns) and I have never had any failures with any of them with any type of ammo. They are nicely finished as far as basically having a carry bevel that most would charge extra for, though they seem to have a tendency towards little blemishes in the finish so seeing in person rather than ordering unseen is good. They run like tops. Downsides would be an annoying tendency to drop brass on the top of your head, and not being typical as far as internal extractors and such, meaning they would likely have to go back to smith for work. But at least smith has an excellent rep for customer service and they pay the shipping both ways if you have a problem.

[maximus83]

I have not owned one, but have seen discussion by some professionals (the likes of Hilton Yam of 10-8 Performance) who believe that the external extractor used by most S&W 1911's eventually becomes unreliable after hard usage. I also hear a lot of very positive reports from recent S&W buyers of 1911's that they are extremely accurate, and that they have had no reliability issues. However, in almost all cases these are folks who have not pushed their 1911's yet to the extreme that Hilton Yam is talking about when he says that the extractors have problems.

Can't tell you whether the S&W 1911's are good or not. But all I can say is, based on the issues with the external extractor that Yam and others have raised, I decided not to buy them. Didn't want to risk the issue with the extractor, and besides, I didn't really want a 1911 anyway that has a "non-standard" extractor. Other companies like Kimber and Sig tried them, and went back to the internal extractor.

Here's a thread in Yam's 10-8 forums where one of Yam's fellow moderators was discussing some of their specific findings on the S&W external extractor:

"The S&W extractor sits too high in the slide. When the barrel links down during the unlock/extract/eject cycle, it moves the case rim off the sweet spot of the extractor, effectively robbing extractor tension and reducing its purchase on the rim. This results in very erratic ejection and/or malfunctions. Due to tolerance stacking, some guns will run okay, and others will not work at all.

Note that the S&W Performance Center guns, which by accounts seem to work just fine, utilize a completely different extractor, which is wider and sits lower in the slide.

Hilton has done the most research on this, and was the one who first turned me on to WHY this was happening. My experiences with them showing up at work and on the range matches Hilton's experience."

[scubie02]

well, there was a guy over on the 1911 forum that shot his to about 45k rounds I believe it was before having a failure, which is more than the average person will likely shoot one in their life I would think (he shot some sort of competition). WIth ammo going for what it's going for these days I can't imagine shooting that much haha.

In theory an external SHOULD be MORE reliable since any chimp can install the external/it doesn't need to be tuned like an internal. But then you need to go to Smith to replace it should that time come.

Kimber had to swap back because they tried to make their's too short (the rumor being they didn't want it to spoilt he looks by going into the slide serrations). Smith never had a problem with theirs. People stopped buying Kimber's in droves and they switched back.

I don't really have a strong preference myself I guess so long as it works, but I do have more traditional Colt's and Springer's than Smith's. I carry the smith's alot, though, because of the weight. Since most all of my other auto's have external extractors I guess I don't worry about them too much.

[maximus83]

Since most all of my other auto's have external extractors I guess I don't worry about them too much.

I agree with you that the external extractors on other modern design semiautos are not a problem. It appears to be only the attempt to put external extractors in 1911's that causes issues. However, perhaps S&W have worked it out by now. I am no expert on their products and don't own one, just repeating what I have seen discussed by Yam and others. Thought the o.p. might want to investigate this question before buying.

[Bushytale]

kimber stopped selling all models with the external extractors due to the fact that when any example would have a problem many times they could not get them to work properly and ended up exchanging the slide to an internal extractor type as the fix.

m60g, do yourself a favor and stay away from the S&W 1911 as they tend to be a similar situation. If the tolerance stack is against you, it will be more trouble than it's worth. The S&W also has a firing pin safety that has shown some problems as well. Get a Colt new '70 series or Springfield and be happy!

scubie02, that brass hitting you in the head is a "clue" that the extractor is not doing what it is supposed to do.

[C-Fish]

Anyone have any exp. with them? How do you like them?

I have one. I bought it recently at SGC, "salesman sample". $399.00

I have taken it to the range 4 times and shot ~500 rounds.

100% thus far. More accurate than my Glocks from 10yards off hand (closest range allowed at my range). I have not benched it yet.

This purchase was "spur of the moment" based on price...

Am I satisfied? At this point 100%. This will not be a carry gun, I have Tupperware for that role.

I could give a crap about the external extractor...I have had zero issues (I realize 500 rounds is not a true test), I'm not a purist (1911's that is), this pistol works for me and the price was right on...

Regards...

[DM-SC]

Is anyone else here old enough to recall the days when most all 1911 guns had to have, at the very least, a few hundred dollars worth of parts/labor to work reliably with JHP ammo?

As for the SW1911...the ones I personally know about, including my Commander sized 1911PD, run and shoot quite well.

Yes, I've heard the stories of failed extractors and failed grip safeties on the SW1911. Excepting Mr. Yam's opinion, I really haven't heard of very many, however.

Could the one you buy have issues? Sure. Just as with anything else man made...there can be problems. That's what warranties are for and why we should new guns until we're pretty certain they're reliable before we carry them around.

[ThirdWatcher]

Is anyone else here old enough to recall the days when most all 1911 guns had to have, at the very least, a few hundred dollars worth of parts/labor to work reliably with JHP ammo? .

I carried 1911s in the Army, but I waited 35 years (after getting out) to buy one for this very reason. Now I carry one of my 1911s everywhere I go, on and off duty.

[trio]

kimber stopped selling all models with the external extractors due to the fact that when any example would have a problem many times they could not get them to work properly and ended up exchanging the slide to an internal extractor type as the fix.

m60g, do yourself a favor and stay away from the S&W 1911 as they tend to be a similar situation. If the tolerance stack is against you, it will be more trouble than it's worth. The S&W also has a firing pin safety that has shown some problems as well. Get a Colt new '70 series or Springfield and be happy!

scubie02, that brass hitting you in the head is a "clue" that the extractor is not doing what it is supposed to do.

i disagree pretty strongly with this....i haven't heard of smith having anywhere near the QC control that kimber has...in fact, searching through 1911 forum and m1911.org i can find no indication of the systemic issues you describe

in fact, most of what I see speaks very, very favorably of the smith guns...

I've owned 3, and they have all run...

i've owned 7 kimbers, and 5 of them needed serious work....

if I was going to buy another "production" 1911 it would be a smith...

in fact, I am going to try and cancel my fusion order because, with the economy as it is, I'm having a hard time with $2000 on a gun that will be a safe queen...my consolation to myself may be another smith 1911