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Thread: FBI'S 'Newest' 9MM Duty Load ?

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Defaultmp3 View Post
    I'd start with DeMaio, and then, when you know what questions to ask, talk to big -city ER docs and MEs, and study autopsy reports, autopsy photos, and CSU photos.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uni-Vibe View Post
    I'd start with DeMaio, and then, when you know what questions to ask, talk to big -city ER docs and MEs, and study autopsy reports, autopsy photos, and CSU photos.
    My buddy in my old VFD that's a crime scene guy with Harris County says that hollowpoints are the way to go, compared to FMJs. Anecdotally, the EMS folks at my old department agree. As did the ME I quoted above. And Dr. Gary Roberts. So I'm not inclined to believe your claims, which fly in the face of expert advice, both from sources online and offline.

    FMJs have killed plenty of people, and can certainly suffice... but then again, the same can be said about .22 LR and Hi-Points. I'll wager that Hi-Points have killed more folks than, say, all Wilson Combats (since "when the trouble starts, [you] pass on all those plastic wunder-gunz"), does that mean that Hi-Points are a superior product?
    Last edited by Defaultmp3; 05-04-18 at 14:47.
    Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

    老僧三十年前未參禪時、見山是山、見水是水、及至後夾親見知識、有箇入處、見山不是山、見水不是水、而今得箇體歇處、依然見山秪是山、見水秪是水。

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  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Defaultmp3 View Post
    My buddy in my old VFD that's a crime scene guy with Harris County says that hollowpoints are the way to go, compared to FMJs. Anecdotally, the EMS folks at my old department agree. As did the ME I quoted above. And Dr. Gary Roberts. So I'm not inclined to believe your claims, which fly in the face of expert advice, both from sources online and offline.

    FMJs have killed plenty of people, and can certainly suffice... but then again, the same can be said about .22 LR and Hi-Points. I'll wager that Hi-Points have killed more folks than, say, all Wilson Combats (since "when the trouble starts, [you] pass on all those plastic wunder-gunz"), does that mean that Hi-Points are a superior product?
    Hollow points are the way to go if they penetrate enough. Many times they don't depending on the type of barrier.

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  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by wtm75 View Post
    Hollow points are the way to go if they penetrate enough. Many times they don't depending on the type of barrier.
    Sure, I was more talking about Uni-Vibe's claim that there is no discernable difference in the terminal ballistics of FMJs and hollowpoints. Obviously penetration plays a role, and I should have stipulated I was speaking of quality bullets being launched at the velocity said bullets were designed for.
    Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

    老僧三十年前未參禪時、見山是山、見水是水、及至後夾親見知識、有箇入處、見山不是山、見水不是水、而今得箇體歇處、依然見山秪是山、見水秪是水。

    https://www.instagram.com/defaultmp3/

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uni-Vibe View Post
    I know I'm swimming upstream against received wisdom here. Most of what we "know" about bullets in bodies is received wisdom passed along, wishful thinking, belief in technology, and "common sense" assumptions. But when you get away from all this, and look at the actual results of shootings, the bodies and bullets tell a different story.
    I won't speak for anyone else, but I only care about modern science based terminal ballistics. Your dismissive claims of what "we" believe is not even what FBI testing is based on, much less any specific fault in the method or requirements.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd.K View Post
    I won't speak for anyone else, but I only care about modern science based terminal ballistics. Your dismissive claims of what "we" believe is not even what FBI testing is based on, much less any specific fault in the method or requirements.
    If there was ever a thread in need of a clean up on isle 7 and lock, this is it.
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  7. #97
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    Uni-Vibe - just stop. The pissiness and snide remarks are not very becoming.

    ETA: And I would highly recommend you stay out of this subforum for a while.
    Last edited by SeriousStudent; 05-04-18 at 19:03. Reason: Adding a warning about as politely as I can.

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