Winchester 9mm +P+ pre-Black Talon

[11Shot]

These were given to me by a retired LEO, Brett. I'm thinking 115 or 124 but we'll know tomorrow. :-)

I went ahead and checked - the Black Talon is 127 gr, the older load is 116.6 gr (!).
I don't know what to think about the chrono reading on the BTs.

[LMT Shooter]

It wouldn't be the first time I was wrong. IIRC, there were other bullet weights available to LE, after Winchester withdrew BT from the civilian market, but I recall Black Talon was introduced with heavy for caliber bullets.

[T2C]

The projectiles on the original Black Talon ammunition were black in color.

[11Shot]

Also black in the first LE Only series with brass case, as mine are, according to what I've read.
In the searches I've done, I've not found anyone who could definitively state the complete development history of the Black Talon/Ranger/T series though.

[T2C]

If the ammunition you have has a 1985 headstamp, it should not be Black Talon. Black Talon ammunition was released by Winchester 6 years later IIRC.

[11Shot]

Right, T2C - I have a box of '85 WCC +P+ with copper bullet and a box of '95 WCC +P+ with black bullet.

[wahoo95]

That's old Winchester LE Ammo which was essentially a 115gr WWB JHP loaded to +P+ (1300fps)

Nothing in those photos even resembles anything Black Talon outside of being stamped Winchester. You keep referencing BT......are you referring to something that wasn't pictured? The original BT ammo was nickel cased and came in 147gr 9mm and wasn't loaded +P or +P+. Once Winchester pulled it from civilian sales they began using brass cases for the LE version which went by Winchester SXT which was the same name without the BT.

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[11Shot]

I've been referring to 2 different boxes of +P+ ammo but haven't had need to post a picture of the Black Talons.
I have a box with brass case and black Lubaloy 127 gr bullet, which is the Black Talon bullet even if not advertised as such.

[T2C]

I've been referring to 2 different boxes of +P+ ammo but haven't had need to post a picture of the Black Talons.
I have a box with brass case and black Lubaloy 127 gr bullet, which is the Black Talon bullet even if not advertised as such.

Winchester was trying to get LE agencies to drop the 115g +P+ and adopt the 127g Talon before politics prompted Winchester to drop the Black Talon name.

The Black Talon box is marked +P+? Is there a lot number stamped inside the box flap?

[wahoo95]

By the time the 127 hit the market the "Black" Talon name had bee dropped and they were simply Ranger. They later changed to Ranger T-Series and lost the black coating once Winchester added their line of bonded bullets to the Ranger line.

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