Training Needs - Serious Self Assessments

[Business_Casual]

Never mind, I wanted to stimulate people to look at their own needs but I just got advice on who I should train with.

[markm]

3) Need to continue to identify and eliminate bad habits from the square range, I'm not sure how to pursue this

If possible, quit shooting on a square range. I NEVER do unless a class that I'm taking is being held there.

I would literally rather NOT SHOOT, than shoot on the square range.

[No.6]

We wouldn't be training if we didn't want to improve. It's not about going out and shooting up the countryside to prove we can operate the weapon. In your original posting you asked about how to break bad habits, shooting on the move, etc. You do that by training. You seek training in the effort to improve, not to validate your abilities.

[LOKNLOD]

M_P looks to have abandoned the original intent for the thread, but what do you guys mean by "bad habits learned on the square range"?

Do you mean doing things wrong repeatedly because noone is watching to correct mistakes? Or do you mean developing bad habits that come with the sacrifices you make to shoot at a club, etc. with some range nazi barking at you because you shot more than 1 round per 5 seconds (or whatever)?

Just wondering. Maybe there are some bad habits I'm not aware of that I can keep an eye out for and try to avoid furthering.

[rob_s]

Two posts and the thread went in the shitter?

[markm]

M_P looks to have abandoned the original intent for the thread, but what do you guys mean by "bad habits learned on the square range"?

That's a good question. I was assuming he meant the square range mindset.

[ToddG]

I would literally rather NOT SHOOT, than shoot on the square range.

That's as bad an attitude as the one that leads people to think that all they need is square range training.

There are skills that are good to have (and good to improve) that are only going to be workable in a square range environment. You can do square range training without getting into a "square range mindset." Every top tier unit I've ever worked with or dealt with or just watched train incorporated quite a bit of square range training into their program.

If you had four hours and 50 rounds to teach someone to shoot, no, square range stuff is not the way to go. For anyone who looks in the mirror and wants to see a skilled shooter, you can't ignore the square range stuff.

[SethB]

Todd, what I see is people who learn from good instructors and then take too many shortcuts in their sustainment training. The answer is to simplify techniques and practice them purposefully. Then integrate them in scenario based training when possible.

I'm specifically referring to not immediately clearing malfunctions, speed reholstering and sloppy draws.

I would like to know what the original poster was getting at.

[ToddG]

SethB -- I'm always amazed at the number of people who spend lots of money on training and do little or no sustainment work on their own. I've got a private lesson student who essentially pays me to watch him every week. I've told him I think it's a waste of money but he's got the money and wants a coach there ...

I've met plenty of competitors who say that local matches are the only practicing they do for big matches. I've met LE and private sector "tactically oriented" shooters who never practice on their own but think going to 4-6 classes per year is all they need.

You have to practice to get better. And if you want to get better at doing things the right way, you have to practice doing them the right way. A lot.

[markm]

I think I said that wrong. I don't mean "no square range type drilling". What I'm getting at is this.... out here in the PHX area, Ben Avery is the largest shooting facility. If you go out to the main range, you can't come onto the range with a loaded pistol in your hip holster.

On the main range they have to set the safety bar to the level of the dimmest bulb out there.... and rightly so. I understand it, and that's cool. There are plenty of stupid people for sure.

I can not function in that environment. I'm not too elite or high speed. I'm not saying that at all... I just can not function on a range where there's this stripe and that line, and you can't even touch paper on the table when the horn toots, etc. I've spent so much time training on hot ranges, that I get yelled at by the Range officers for silly stuff like touching a roll of tape while standing in front of the purple line but not behind the green line or whatever.

If guys ask me if I want to tag along when they go to the main range, I'll just not shoot. That's the point I was making, and I guess my assumption was that #3 was addressing the unrealistic aspects of shooting on the benches at the public ranges.