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Thread: New-The Wilson Combat .458 HAM'R-3000 Foot Pounds of Energy from your AR!

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by WillBrink View Post
    Need is a funny word. I think answer is Cuz 'Murica, that's why
    Quote Originally Posted by SomeOtherGuy View Post
    this sounds like it's marketing to the casual hunter with too much money Cabela's crowd, the guy that buys a .500 S&W revolver and can fit a lifetime supply of ammo in one pocket with room to spare.
    I can easily see the reason for one AR15-sized thumper cartridge. But each time a company introduces a new cartridge that is almost identical to some existing cartridge, but not compatible, they make the overall market worse, not better. This will take
    (a few) sales away from the pre-existing options like .458 SOCOM(-wannabe), .450 Bushhamster, .51 Beowulf, etc., so their adopters have less options instead of more, but without really offering much.

    We see this all the time in the sporting firearms industry, and have for decades. Other recent examples include 6.5 Creedmoor vs. .260 Remington, and 6.0 Creedmoor vs. .243 Winchester. The Creedmoor cartridges may be ever so slightly better, but not enough to really justify their existence. Fortunately, all four of those see enough competition and hunting use that it has relatively little impact on ammo costs, although anyone invested in .260 Rem is probably not thrilled these days. Even in a higher volume market like that it can still affect things like availability of premium brass (Lapua for example). In a much lower volume market like thumpers, or magnum revolvers, adding me-too options (.475 Ruger, anyone?) could affect availability and price of ammo.

    I'm not proposing any sort of government restriction, just more self-restraint on the part of the manufacturers. I realize that for some companies this is just a marketing schtick; one could argue that Weatherby exists largely because of this. But c'mon, let's make fundamentally better products instead of doing the gun equivalent of changing paint colors and adding chrome trim and saying "The ALL-NEW 1958 Edseljunk makes last year's '57 Edseljunk worthless!"

    We could argue at length (preferably not on M4c) about which cartridges are meaningful improvements and which ones aren't, but seriously, I don't see any point to this one and it looks like it will further fracture a thumper field that already lacks a dominant player or standardization.

    Note: I don't own, or plan to buy, any thumper-type cartridges, so this isn't any sour grapes over my own investment in something.

    BTW, this is from the FAQ on their website (ammo pages):

    FAQ

    Will a .458 HAM'R chamber and fire in a .458 SOCOM chamber? Not during normal chambering since the HAM'R case is .040" too long, If you tried to chamber the same HAM'R cartridge repeatedly in a .458 SOCOM, the case shoulder could potentially set back the .040" that would allow chambering, thereby creating an overpressure situation that would most likely damage your .458 SOCOM rifle and potentially cause injury.

    Can you fire a .458 SOCOM in a .458 HAM'R chamber? What would happen? Yes, the HAM'R extractor can hold the .458 SOCOM case close enough to the breech face for the gun to fire, although in an extreme excessive headspace state. This is not recommended and may cause damage to the ammunition and bolt assembly.
    Hasn't the industry learned enough from the 300BLK kabooms? I mean, it was supposed to be incompatible with .223/556 chambers due to the recommended bullet sizes and shapes, and look where we are. It's not hard to imagine ammo mismatch going both ways with this thumper. 0.040" isn't that much and it might have been better just to use the exact same case dimensions and rely on people reading the labels, assuming that an overpressure load in a properly dimensioned chamber is less likely to blow up the gun than excessive headspace or bullet setback. And what cartridge is more likely to experience setback than one that has (1) a really heavy bullet, (2) a primary purpose and foreseeable use of hunting, where you load going into the field (or at your blind/stand) and unload coming out, possibly several times a day for any number of days, (3) a multi-dollar cost per factory cartridge so most people will keep reloading the same cartridge in the chamber even if the box or manual tells them not to do so, (4) used in a platform that is normally loaded by releasing the bolt to ride home the recoil spring, and (5) likely to be reloaded by many owners, so bullet crimp, seating depth, and case mouth dimensions may well be wrong (obviously this is a reloader's error, not the factory's, but it's foreseeable).

    I know I'm coming across as a horrible curmudgeon on this. I don't care. This strikes me as if someone came up with a way to get 10mm auto ballistics in a .40 S&W case, then made the loaded round longer by an amount less than foreseeable bullet setback. Then says don't use it in a .40 S&W barrel or platform, even though it might fit. Tell me how I'm wrong.
    Last edited by SomeOtherGuy; 01-05-18 at 15:42.
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  2. #12
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    I guess my point is why doesn't someone upsize an upper/barrel extension that will allow a beefier bolt. I don't believe even the best of the AR15 sized 7.62 x 39 bolts have good long term reliability, work around is to go with a rebated rim but even then you are putting a lot more stress on the bolt. Increase the upper size just a little, larger barrel extension to match and modify the carrier and you should increase service life a lot.

  3. #13
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    I think an intermediary system needs to have an intermediate mags. That is the odd thing in this new setup.

    The LWRC Six8 comes to mind for mags. Couple that with Wilsonís approach above. Make standardized specs.

    Why not more like this? That would expand the options incredibly.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack7.62 View Post
    I guess my point is why doesn't someone upsize an upper/barrel extension that will allow a beefier bolt. I don't believe even the best of the AR15 sized 7.62 x 39 bolts have good long term reliability, work around is to go with a rebated rim but even then you are putting a lot more stress on the bolt. Increase the upper size just a little, larger barrel extension to match and modify the carrier and you should increase service life a lot.
    I did design a big bolt in late 2008 but only the few wildcatters took advantage of them. The 800 series bolts would handle cartridges like the 6BRX at 60,000psi and we have never had one fail. Making 200 bolts and extensions a year wasn't worth setting up the CNCs.
    It wasn't till about 2 years ago that many people really got into wildcatting cartridges for the AR platform. The 22 Nosler and 224 Valkyrie are very similar to the 5.56x42 I have been making since 2007. Marty Terweem(Teppo Jutsu) and I were both making all kinds of cats around 2006-07. Bolt on left is a mil spec bolt, middle is our enhanced lug design and the one on the right is either a 750XD or 800 series. They all fit standard AR carriers but the 750 and 800 requires a different extension that fits in a mil spec upper receiver.boltcompare.jpg
    Last edited by constructor; 01-11-18 at 10:10.
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    The 6.8 is the best choice for hunting deer and hogs with an AR15.

  5. #15
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    So, actually less energy than a 12 gauge slug. Granted, longer range, but not exactly like putting a 17 pounder into a Sherman.

    It goes through schools......
    I just did two lines of powdered wig powder, cranked up some Lee Greenwood, and recited the BoR. - Outlander Systems

    I'm a professional WAGer - WillBrink /// "Comey is a smarmy, self righteous mix of J. Edgar Hoover and a gay Lurch from the "Adams Family"." -Averageman

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by WillBrink View Post
    Need is a funny word. I think answer is Cuz 'Murica, that's why
    Answer is right there^^^. If I had money to burn I would add this to my collection. Just because.
    Psalm 34:19

    To argue with a person who renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead. ~ Thomas Paine

  7. #17
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    The "weird" stuff people like Wilson, LWRC & Constructor do today often become standards tomorrow.

    'Murica.... Hell Yes!

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by HelloLarry View Post
    The "weird" stuff people like Wilson, LWRC & Constructor do today often become standards tomorrow.
    Huh? This makes no sense.

    After my recent experience with 450BM I'm not so sure anything designed to extend the AR platform beyond a purpose built 762 is worth the time.

    Using AR magazines for 450BM is a total crap shoot. No, they don't always feed reliably in the real world, regardless what you've been told. Then there are the guys who slap single stack folowers into regular AR15 magazines and try to charge 40 bucks.

    I'm giving 450 another shot and just ordered another upper, but these are not guns you'd bet your life on by any stretch of the imagination.

  9. #19
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    Being on the cutting edge always comes with a price.

  10. #20
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    Does this have a military application?

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