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Thread: Suppressed SBR is no longer reliable.

  1. #1
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    Suppressed SBR is no longer reliable.

    My suppressed SBR is no longer reliable.

    SilencerCo Saker 556
    13.7" Noveske barrel, mid length gas system
    Noveske gas block pinned (non adjustable)
    UCWRG BCG
    BCM extractor upgrade (just installed, unfired)
    H2 buffer
    SpringCo Blue spring

    Using strictly Federal XM193 55gr 5.56

    The gun runs flawlessly without the suppressor. With the suppressor i was getting failures to extract (reasoning for the BCM extractor upgrade), the rifle also would double feed forming the 2nd round it picked up into a taco by bending the case to the point it was unusable (this most likely was the extractor failing to do its job, and the carrier trying to feed a new round into the failure that had previously happened) this happens 2-3 times per magazine.

    1-2 times in the last 400rnds fired while suppressed i have blown primers out of the case, the result was a locked up trigger, and a locked up bcg.

    Id rather not change more than one thing at a time. My first change is the BCM extractor upgrade kit.

    What else should i pickup before next weekend when i head out into the desert to spend some time getting this rifle to run reliably suppressed? I have read that the BCM A5 buffer system may be worth acquiring. I have also looked into the SLR .750 adjustable gas blocks, but i would prefer to keep my gas block pinned if possible.

    I have started researching adjustable bolt carriers, but i am undecided on taking that path.

    I have an H buffer, and a standard BCM mil-spec buffer/recoil spring so far to take out with me next time.

    Thank you for any help or input.
    Last edited by Grip; 01-15-18 at 11:13.

  2. #2
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    It the gun was reliable previously, then determining what has changed would be the priority.

  3. #3
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    Adding the suppressor is what changed.

  4. #4
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    Then there’s your culprit. Take your H buffer and turn your H2 into a H3 and see how the gun performs. Often, a heavier buffer is all that’s needed to run reliably with a can.

    Also, the A5 system is a worthwhile consideration, IMHO

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grip View Post
    Adding the suppressor is what changed.
    Keep the sprinco blue. Either step up to a PWS H3 buffer as a stop gap measure, or transition to the A5 system with at LEAST an A5H3 buffer and sprinco green spring. You can still step up to an A5H4 from there.

    Lastly, avoid adjustable carriers and consider grabbing an LMT enhanced carrier.

    Easy first step is the PWS steel body H3.


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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grip View Post
    My suppressed SBR is no longer reliable.

    SilencerCo Saker 556
    13.7" Noveske barrel, mid length gas system
    Noveske gas block pinned (non adjustable)
    UCWRG BCG
    BCM extractor upgrade (just installed, unfired)
    H2 buffer
    SpringCo Blue spring

    Using strictly XM193 55gr

    The gun runs flawlessly without the suppressor. With the suppressor i was getting failures to extract (reasoning for the BCM extractor upgrade), the rifle also would double feed forming the 2nd round it picked up into a taco by bending the case to the point it was unusable (this may have also been the extractor failing to do its job, and the carrier trying to feed a new round into the failure that had previously happened) this happens 2-3 times per magazine.

    1-2 times in the last 400rnds fired while suppressed i have blown primers out of the case, the result was a locked up trigger, and a locked up bcg.

    Id rather not change more than one thing at a time. My first change is the BCM extractor upgrade kit.

    What else should i pickup before next weekend when i head out into the desert to spend some time getting this rifle to run reliably suppressed? I have read that the BCM A5 buffer system may be worth acquiring. I have also looked into the SLR .750 adjustable gas blocks, but i would prefer to keep my gas block pinned if possible.

    I have started researching adjustable bolt carriers, but i am undecided on taking that path.

    I have an H buffer, and a standard BCM mil-spec buffer/recoil spring so far to take out with me next time.

    Thank you for any help or input.
    You'll need to shoot the rifle to verify the extractor spring upgrade kit fixed your problem.

    However, if you want to look ahead, you could remove the gas block and check gas port diameter. A barrel that has the right diameter for unsuppressed use is usually over-gassed for use with a suppressor. A good way to fix that problem using your existing gas block is to get the BRT Micro Port kit. Popped primers are sometimes a sign of early extraction caused by over-gassing combined with a weak extractor.
    Last edited by MistWolf; 01-14-18 at 20:59.
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  7. #7
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    First thing is first. You aren't experiencing a "double feed". You had a failure to extract which led to a failure to feed. The blown primers should be a cause for concern. You either have some bad ammo, or a potential chamber issue. A tight or out of spec chamber can lead to chamber pressure problems which accounts for the primers and the failure to extract.

    First thing I would do is get some non crappy Federal XM193 ammo and see if you get the same results. If you do, then I would start looking at a potential chamber issue.

    I wouldn't be surprised if that Noveske has a massive blowhole and I would be curious to know what it is. I would probably go ahead and get an H3 buffer as well.



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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    First thing is first. You aren't experiencing a "double feed". You had a failure to extract which led to a failure to feed. The blown primers should be a cause for concern. You either have some bad ammo, or a potential chamber issue. A tight or out of spec chamber can lead to chamber pressure problems which accounts for the primers and the failure to extract.

    First thing I would do is get some non crappy Federal XM193 ammo and see if you get the same results. If you do, then I would start looking at a potential chamber issue.

    I wouldn't be surprised if that Noveske has a massive blowhole and I would be curious to know what it is. I would probably go ahead and get an H3 buffer as well.
    I thought I explained my double feed theory well, it wasn't really a double feed I just didn't know what else to call it. I will see if the BCM extractor upgrade fixes the extraction issue.

    Are you saying to get something else besides Federal xm193? or specifically shoot Federal xm193? I only have/shoot Federal XM193 55gr ammo.

    I will bring an H3 buffer with me and see how that goes this weekend.

  9. #9
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    I am saying I don't trust Federal XM193 and I would get 3-4 boxes of some other quality 5.56 and see what happens. The prices and availability right now of ammo is mind blowing. I would think you should be able to find something locally for a reasonable price to conduct a test.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grip View Post
    I thought I explained my double feed theory well, it wasn't really a double feed I just didn't know what else to call it. I will see if the BCM extractor upgrade fixes the extraction issue.

    Are you saying to get something else besides Federal xm193? or specifically shoot Federal xm193? I only have/shoot Federal XM193 55gr ammo.

    I will bring an H3 buffer with me and see how that goes this weekend.



    Owner/Instructor at Semper Paratus Arms

    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SemperParatusArms/

    Semper Paratus Arms AR15 Armorer Course http://www.semperparatusarms.com/cou...-registration/

    M4C Misc. Training and Course Announcements- http://www.m4carbine.net/forumdisplay.php?f=141

    Master Armorer/R&D at SIONICS Weapon Systems- http://sionicsweaponsystems.com

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grip View Post
    I thought I explained my double feed theory well, it wasn't really a double feed I just didn't know what else to call it. I will see if the BCM extractor upgrade fixes the extraction issue.

    Are you saying to get something else besides Federal xm193? or specifically shoot Federal xm193? I only have/shoot Federal XM193 55gr ammo.

    I will bring an H3 buffer with me and see how that goes this weekend.
    I read the explanation of the double-feed more along the lines of a bolt-over-base malf.
    Like this:


    I only say this because this was happening to me on my rifles when I introduced a suppressor. Mostly one 16" mid-length gun I have.
    I'd shoot kittenfart PMC .223 bronze most of the time and didn't notice a problem. Then I started buying and shooting a lot more mk262 clone, specifically from CBC and IMI, and it runs pretty hot by comparison. I started experiencing BoB malfs and thought that somehow I was short stroking. This went against everything I understood about suppressors and gas operated guns.
    I was speaking to Marvin Pitts on the phone and he explained that absolutely I'm overgassed when suppressed, but I'm actually so overgassed the BCG is bouncing off the back of the buffer tub and outrunning the magazine spring, leading to the BoB. He suggested stiffer springs and/or increasing buffer weights. Actually he suggested an adjustable gasblock but that wasn't an option.
    Got a Sprinco Red and a collection of buffers. Finally got it to function with the Red and an H2 on everything from PMC bronze to Mk262. Then I got an Gemtech suppressed BCG, a geissele super braided 42 buffer spring and I'm golden.

    My SBR however was a little different. While I never got the BoB malfs I was seeing before recoil was noticeably stiffer suppressed and brass was practically dribbling out of the gun telling me my BCG speed was too high. Switched to the geissele super braided 42, and turned their provided H buffer in to an H2 buffer. Then added my LMT enhanced carrier to it. Much more manageable now.

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