Does the 7N6 round in 5.44x.39 cause more damage than a .308??

[Arik]

From what I've seen in deer flesh it's certainly nothing to sneeze at. Pictures aren't mine to repost otherwise I'd post them up. However, it's nothing that a good 556 can't do and with more availability it's just easier to stick with 556. If you can't afford both stick with 556. Forget the 308. For the price of a Springfield Scout you can get roughly 3 - 4 THOUSAND rounds of range 556. Wolf Gold and Fiocchi are around $300 delivered ($290 + $16 flat fee shipped). Or you can get 500 - 1000 rounds of good SD ammo + some range ammo or a mixture there of.

If you're seriously hurting for money I'd sell off the AK and the ammo. For one do-it-all gun the 6920 just makes more sense financially

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[shiv]

No, 7n6 effectiveness is over exaggerated. Its the same logic people use when trying to justify 5.7 terminal ballistics. You are better off punching a big hole over trying to make a bullet travel sideways through flesh. That "poison bullet" BS is pretty much Soviet propaganda, some SF guys who came back from Afghanistan who worked with former Muj who fought against the Soviets asked about it. The 'poison' in poison bullet roughly translates in Pashto to the poison in a wasp or bee sting. So 7n6 hit more like a bee sting rather than your wicked mad tumbling magic bullet.



Actually ballistically I think 5.45 is more like 5.56 2.0. Ive shot thousands and thousands of rounds 5.45 7n6 and Ive been impressed on how flat is shoots. The BC on that little 53gr bullet is far higher than 55gr or 62gr ball ammo and its doing it at lower velocity and lower pressure(my suspensions were confirmed via doppler radar regression : https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread...unition-Review. The problem with 5.45 is that it got left in the stone age of ammo development. You won't see super match grade bullets or barrier blind SPs. Ive since completely divested myself of the caliber since the ATF pretty much killed it stateside which is a shame since the caliber had so much potential.

Looked at the link. They were comparing WPA 5.56. Not exactly the pinnacle of 5.56 projectiles. At what range you shooting that you noticed the 5.45 to be measureably flatter?


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[Firefly]

I can't speak for Vicious CB, but it was pretty flat within 300 yards when I had mine. Noticeably more accurate than the 5.56 AK that I couldnt rid myself of soon enough. I had a Russian barrel and it was flat and accurate. Easily 2-2.5 moa which for an AK is pretty good. The only AK I miss and at one point I had a Vietnam War looking AK with the pig sticker bayonet. It went towards my KAC habit but while I personally wouldn't take any AK over an AR; I was pretty happy with that rifle/caliber.

In fact, I kinda miss it. It was like so close to am AK-74M. Silver Bear was its best ammo and I shot irons only. I was fomd of it but saw the writing on the wall. I'm half tempted to find another 5.45 at some point and have it just to have. It was bang on at 300. No problems on the man shaped steel.

Never tried with a scope, but maybe if I had a Geissele style AK trigger and a good optic; I Could have eked a better group but AKs do flex.
Caveat, I had taken the 74 brake off and put on a normal flash hider so that may have helped a bit.

If we lived in a perfect, non political, non BS world I'd have a 74 right now.

The one bullet that sorta kinda replicates, I guess, the 5.45 is 6.5 grendel, but I cannot speak to it as I dont have one. But it takes the needle like bullet principle. 6.5 grendel is a bit too niche for me but from what I've read it extrapolates on the benefits of 5.45 with regards to the flatter bcf.

But vicious cb has a point. It was flat and fun. I dont think it is perfect but certainly more interesting than any other Com Bloc round.

[Arik]

You are arguing with a guy who has never shot his AR and keeps it chained to a radiator. This is probably another of his troll posts....

Yea that crossed my mind

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[shiv]

I can't speak for Vicious CB, but it was pretty flat within 300 yards when I had mine. Noticeably more accurate than the 5.56 AK that I couldnt rid myself of soon enough. I had a Russian barrel and it was flat and accurate. Easily 2-2.5 moa which for an AK is pretty good. The only AK I miss and at one point I had a Vietnam War looking AK with the pig sticker bayonet. It went towards my KAC habit but while I personally wouldn't take any AK over an AR; I was pretty happy with that rifle/caliber.

In fact, I kinda miss it. It was like so close to am AK-74M. Silver Bear was its best ammo and I shot irons only. I was fomd of it but saw the writing on the wall. I'm half tempted to find another 5.45 at some point and have it just to have. It was bang on at 300. No problems on the man shaped steel.

Never tried with a scope, but maybe if I had a Geissele style AK trigger and a good optic; I Could have eked a better group but AKs do flex.
Caveat, I had taken the 74 brake off and put on a normal flash hider so that may have helped a bit.

If we lived in a perfect, non political, non BS world I'd have a 74 right now.

The one bullet that sorta kinda replicates, I guess, the 5.45 is 6.5 grendel, but I cannot speak to it as I dont have one. But it takes the needle like bullet principle. 6.5 grendel is a bit too niche for me but from what I've read it extrapolates on the benefits of 5.45 with regards to the flatter bcf.

But vicious cb has a point. It was flat and fun. I dont think it is perfect but certainly more interesting than any other Com Bloc round.

Again, that’s not actual numbers. Looking for specifics. The article compared a crummy .223 round to one of the better 5.45 rounds...a 60 gr with a .323 BC. Because the 5.45 is a smaller diameter, bullets of similar weight will have a better BC. However, comparing it to the 62, 64, 68, or 69 gr ammunition, it has a lower BC. But if flat is your primary concern, there are far flatter loads in .223 than 5.45.

Trajectory is easy, though. It’s wind that is hard. Thad’s where BC helps the most.

Overall, they are ballistic twins, but bullet tech is there for the 5.56. You want flat, there are flatter loads. You want long range. We’ve got that too. You want barrier penetration, you can pick loads for that too. Versatility, barrel life, etc. if you live in the US, the 5.45 is a poor choice for most people.


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The best 5.45 load I have data on:



The terrible M855

As you can see, at 300 if you find one or the other to be *significantly* flatter, something is wrong or you’ve failed to calculate sight height over vote.




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[vicious_cb]

Looked at the link. They were comparing WPA 5.56. Not exactly the pinnacle of 5.56 projectiles. At what range you shooting that you noticed the 5.45 to be measureably flatter?


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Thats not even the article I was referencing. I have go to find the magazine but they were getting something like a G1 of .370 which is heavy OTM BCs out of a light 53gr bullet which is pretty impressive. No one is arguing that 7n6 is better than the 5.56 match loads out there but that 7n6, compared to its contemporaries had some pretty impressive performance for its time.

[Firefly]

Slow your roll, Speedy Gonzalez.

I was not the one stating 5.45 was 'better', merely corraborating another poster in that 5.45 is pretty flat and I had a positive experience.

For an East Bloc AK cartridge, it isn't bad and is quite flat.

The previous poster was positing that had 5.45 been developed more; it may yet yield interesting BCF. To whit, I agree.

What I said is what I said. 5.56 has more versatility and more weights and values, but has had more developmemt. I'm not saying 5.45 is "better".

If you dont like it, you don't have to buy it. The thesis of the OP is he was, erroneously, claiming 7n6 made a bigger wound channel which is just asinine given some of the lighter .308 rounds out there.

What I said was I wouldn't mind another 5.45 if it was 2009 again and Saiga AK 74s and Russian ammo was still cheap and that it was a flatter round compared to the 7.62 AK round (which I don't care for or about)

The similarities between 5.56 and 5.45 can't be ignored but I never said 5.45 was "better".

For a ranch rifle or a camp rifle, the AK74 and its round within 300 yds isn't bad at all.

Caveat, I am not really an AK nor a 5.45 guy but I enjoyed it. All I'm saying.

[shiv]

Don’t worry, I didn’t say you said it was better. I just wanted to put some real hard numbers out there because this is the internet and people can and will misinterpret what we say, Fly.

There seems to be so much mysticism around the AK rounds and the misinformation runs unchecked in many circles. The fact that this thread exists is evidence of that.




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[Firefly]

Don’t worry, I didn’t say you said it was better. I just wanted to put some real hard numbers out there because this is the internet and people can and will misinterpret what we say, Fly.


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It's all good. You have a point. If I had a 5.45 drop chart I would post it. But unfortunately I do not.

I do agree they are quite similar and likely by design on behalf of the Russians to keep ballistic parity with the West.

I would reckon they have some kind of 5.45 progress but those rounds are simply unobtainable in the West and are unknown variables (at least where we are concerned)

If anyone has more knowledge on their current rounds, it would be interesting

[vicious_cb]

It's all good. You have a point. If I had a 5.45 drop chart I would post it. But unfortunately I do not.

I do agree they are quite similar and likely by design on behalf of the Russians to keep ballistic parity with the West.

I would reckon they have some kind of 5.45 progress but those rounds are simply unobtainable in the West and are unknown variables (at least where we are concerned)

If anyone has more knowledge on their current rounds, it would be interesting

They went a whole nother direction and focused more on punching through armor than external and terminal ballistics.