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Thread: Browning Gets Serious--Launches TL-30 Safe

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasGunNut View Post
    True, but given the specs on their product they appear to exceed RSC standards. Since I didn’t need fire protection they fit the bill perfectly.
    Sturdy would need to make a safe that has 1" of steel in the body and 1.5" in the door to be TL-30 equivalent.
    “The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tokarev View Post
    I haven't seen anything that small. At least not anything that will work for rifles. I'm afraid the problem will be internal useful space. Anything with an 18X18 footprint will probably only be 12X12 or so inside.

    http://www.amsecusa.com/high-securit...mposite-safes/
    This has always been an issue. I just want an interior dimension of like 18x18 that's maybe 60" tall. Even an interior 12x12" width is probably enough for me. I really don't have that many guns, and I don't want anymore. I just want my stuff to be fireproof and theft proof but its like the safe manufacturers don't market to guys like me. They sell the 1 ton behemoths to guys who have like 60 rifles.
    Why do the loudest do the least?

  3. #33
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    Used jewelry safes are definitely the way to go. Prices are usually less than half of retail, and if you are buying them from a dealer they know how to move it. Just make sure you get a written contract specifying the final location in your house. Also, a concrete slab is the best place for them, and steps are mostly out of the question. Moving them isn't all that difficult with a pallet jack. Injuries will be serious if done wrong.
    nothing screams napoleonic warfare more than cannons roaring in the background

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eurodriver View Post
    This has always been an issue. I just want an interior dimension of like 18x18 that's maybe 60" tall. Even an interior 12x12" width is probably enough for me. I really don't have that many guns, and I don't want anymore. I just want my stuff to be fireproof and theft proof but its like the safe manufacturers don't market to guys like me. They sell the 1 ton behemoths to guys who have like 60 rifles.
    I'm afraid all the commercial safes with such a small footprint will be too short to hold a rifle unless maybe you pull the upper and lower apart. You might take a look at Sturdy then. The smallest gun safe they offer has a base of 24X19 and can be beefed up with a 1/4" steel body and 3/8" steel door. From there you can add stainless plates or additional carbon steel plates to reinforce the safe as you see fit.

    Other small safes like this from competing companies will be 1/10-1/8" thickness and you won't be allowed to add any options to increase thickness.

    This safe won't be TL rated but it is probably about as good as you can get for a small gun safe. The down side with Sturdy is the lack of any real info regarding their fire liner.

    https://www.sturdysafe.com/products/model-2419
    Last edited by Tokarev; 02-10-18 at 07:49.
    “The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by medicman816 View Post
    Used jewelry safes are definitely the way to go. Prices are usually less than half of retail, and if you are buying them from a dealer they know how to move it. Just make sure you get a written contract specifying the final location in your house. Also, a concrete slab is the best place for them, and steps are mostly out of the question. Moving them isn't all that difficult with a pallet jack. Injuries will be serious if done wrong.
    Absolutely. You can score a similar sized tl 30x6 at about half the price. You just need to have some patience.

  6. #36
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    Here's a TL30X6 that would probably work for a few ARs and some pistols on a top shelf.

    https://losangeles.craigslist.org/ws...452498862.html

    But, as mentioned, such safes don't offer much in the way of storage vs the amount of space they take up. This is one of the things that interests me most about the new Browning.

    Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
    “The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."

  7. #37
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    Here is a bit of info on the new RSC Level 2 attack standard. American Security is already making safes tested to meet this.


    Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
    “The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."

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    Hilarious how they show the axe and hand tools
    Besides the one drill
    Why no metal cutting tools Like cutting torches or chop saws

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeg26er View Post
    Hilarious how they show the axe and hand tools
    Besides the one drill
    Why no metal cutting tools Like cutting torches or chop saws
    Power tools and cutting torches don't come into play until the TL rating and above.

    Here is some info on the various security levels although this info predates the new RSC II and III attack standards:

    Safe Rating Details

    Unless the safe has been tested & classified by Underwriters Laboratories (U.L.), the rating standards are completely up to the individual manufacturer and can vary greatly. Generally those non-U.L. tested ratings, in ascending levels of security, are:

    "B" Rate

    Most of the safe industry recognizes a B-rated safe as having a 3/16" to 1/4" thick steel body with a 1/2" thick steel door. The steel thicknesses are a combined total. For example, a safe may have an insulating material in between 2 pieces of 1/8" steel in the body and it can still be considered a B-rated safe. There are no formal written standards to which manufacturers must adhere.

    "C" Rate
    A majority of the industry recognizes a C-rated safe as having a 1/2" thick steel body with a 1" thick steel door. As with the "B" Rating, the steel thicknesses are a combined total after deducting any insulating materials. There are no formal written standards to which manufacturers must adhere.

    "E" Rate
    It is generally agreed that an "E" Rated safe has a 1" thick steel body with a 1-1/2" thick steel door. As with the "B" & "C" Ratings, the steel thicknesses are a combined total after deducting any insulating materials. Here too, there are no formal written standards to which manufacturers must adhere.

    Underwriter’s Laboratories (U.L.) has been rating products and services from around the world, instilling confidence in purchasers, for over 100 years. To ensure that a safe continues to uphold the U.L. certification standards initially met during the U.L. testing process, a U.L. representative will periodically visit the manufacturing facilities to perform random inspections.

    Highly trained U.L technicians work to forcibly enter the safe under ideal laboratory conditions, unlike those a real burglar would encounter. They use a wide variety of tools depending on the U.L. rating that is being sought. Successful "entry" is defined as opening the safe’s door or creating a 6 inch square hole. The "net working time" is the total time tools actually touch the safe while trying to gain entry. In reality it may take a burglar hours to accrue only 15 minutes of "net working time."

    FOLLOWING ARE ALL OF THE U.L. SAFE RATINGS IN ASCENDING LEVELS OF SECURITY

    As you would expect, as the level of protection increases, so does the weight and cost of the safe.

    UL Residential Security Container (RSC) Rating
    The RSC rating is based on a net working time of 5 minutes using common household tools such as a crow bar, a drill with a 1/2 HP motor, a hammer and chisel against the door. The safe body is not tested. The RSC rating also requires a lock with a minimum U.L. rating of "Group 2." RSC rated safes are good for residential applications that don't require protection from professionals with high-powered tools.

    UL TL-15 Rating

    The TL-15 rating is based on a net working time of 15 minutes using a wide variety of high powered tools that would be employed by professional burglars or locksmiths against the door, such as high-speed drills with tungsten-carbide drill bits, grinders, hole saws, pry bars, a wedge and sledge hammer. The safe body must made of material equivalent to at least 1″ open hearth steel with a minimum tensile strength of 50,000 P.S.I., which should provide a minimum of 8 minutes of net working time protection. This rating requires a lock with a minimum U.L. rating of Group 2M.

    UL TL-30 Rating
    The TL-30 rating is based on a net working time of 30 minutes using a wide variety of high powered tools that would be employed by professional burglars or locksmiths against the door, such as high-speed drills with tungsten-carbide drill bits, grinders, abrasive wheels, power saws, hole saws, pry bars, a wedge and sledge hammer. The safe body must made of material equivalent to at least 1″ open hearth steel with a minimum tensile strength of 50,000 P.S.I., which should provide a minimum of 8 minutes of net working time protection. This rating requires a lock with a minimum U.L. rating of Group 2M.

    UL TRTL-30 Rating
    The TRTL-30 rating is based on a net working time of 30 minutes using a wide variety of high powered tools that would be employed by professional burglars or locksmiths against the door, such as high-speed drills with tungsten-carbide drill bits, grinders, abrasive wheels, power saws, hole saws, pry bars, a wedge and sledge hammer, plus an oxy-acetylene cutting torch. The safe body must made of material equivalent to at least 1″ open hearth steel with a minimum tensile strength of 50,000 P.S.I., which should provide a minimum of 8 minutes of net working time protection. This rating requires a lock with a minimum U.L. rating of Group 2M.

    UL TL-30X6 Rating

    The TL-30x6 rating is based on a net working time of 30 minutes using a wide variety of high powered tools that would be employed by professional burglars or locksmiths against all six side of the safe, such as high-speed drills with tungsten-carbide drill bits, grinders, abrasive wheels, power saws, hole saws, pry bars, a wedge and sledge hammer. This rating requires a lock with a minimum U.L. rating of Group 2M.

    UL TRTL-30X6 Rating
    The TRTL-30x6 rating is based on a net working time of 30 minutes using a wide variety of high powered tools that would be employed by professional burglars or locksmiths against all six side of the safe, such as high-speed drills with tungsten-carbide drill bits, grinders, abrasive wheels, power saws, hole saws, pry bars, a wedge and sledge hammer, plus an oxy-acetylene cutting torch. This rating requires a lock with a minimum U.L. rating of Group 2M.

    UL TRTL-60X6 Rating
    The TRTL-60x6 rating is based on a net working time of 60 minutes using a wide variety of high powered tools that would be employed by professional burglars or locksmiths against all six side of the safe, such as high-speed drills with tungsten-carbide drill bits, grinders, abrasive wheels, power saws, hole saws, pry bars, a wedge and sledge hammer, plus an oxy-acetylene cutting torch. This rating requires a lock with a minimum U.L. rating of Group 2M.

    UL TXTL-60X6 Rating

    The TXTL-60x6 rating is based on a net working time of 60 minutes using a wide variety of high powered tools that would be employed by professional burglars or locksmiths against all six side of the safe, such as high-speed drills with tungsten-carbide drill bits, grinders, abrasive wheels, power saws, hole saws, pry bars, a wedge and sledge hammer, plus an oxy-acetylene cutting torch, plus the use of 8 ounces of nitroglycerin explosives, generally focused on the lock. This rating requires a lock with a minimum U.L. rating of Group 2M.
    Last edited by Tokarev; 02-12-18 at 08:17.
    “The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."

  10. #40
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    Here's an example of a safe designed to withstand a half hour's worth of tool attack on all six sides. Still not rated for cutting torches...

    https://highsecuritysafecompany.com/...del-R71GS.html
    “The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."

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