Practice with 9mm and carry 40S&W on duty?

[98z28]

OK, so I am trying to make a decision and I thought I might appeal to some folks who have probably tried, or are doing this. I know there other threads regarding practicing with one caliber and carrying another, but I wanted to address this specific situation.

I currently carry a M&P 40S&W as a duty weapon. I no longer work for a large agency that will supply all of the ammo I can shoot, so I have to buy pretty much all of my practice ammo. I purchased and had planned on switching to a 9mm M&P for duty just so I can afford to practice a bit more. As luck would have it, I actually convinced my mother to go to the range with me and she wound up taking my 9mm M&P home with her. I have convinced her to get some formal training and actually keep a weapon at home for defense. I am pretty excited about that, but it is another story.

My dilemma is this: Should I stick with the 40 for duty use and just get a 9mm conversion barrel to practice with (this was not an option when I first got the 9mm M&P), or switch to 9mm altogether? I owned both the 40S&W and 9mm for a little while and shot them back to back a number of times. The 9mm feels significantly different than the 40S&W, so it would not be matter of simply practicing with 9mm and then loading up with 40S&W to hit the street. I would have to finish off each session with 100 rounds or so of 40S&W to make sure I was back in the saddle.

I guess the question boils down to this: Is the 40S&W enough of an improvement in ballistics over the 9mm to justify sticking with the 40 rather than moving completely to 9mm? Remember that this is for a duty weapon and performance after passing through intermediate barriers (especially auto glass) is a big concern. My gut tells me to roll with the 9mm as a duty weapon and stop worrying about it. I just wanted to check in with those with more experience and knowledge to get some outside opinions. Thanks.

Current duty load: Winchester Ranger-T 180 gr JHP (RA40T)

The 9mm load would be whichever choice from DocGKR 's list I could get the cheapest:

Barnes XPB 105 & 115 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Federal Tactical 124 gr JHP (LE9T1)
Speer Gold Dot 124 gr +P JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 124 gr +P JHP (RA9124TP)
Winchester Partition Gold 124 gr JHP (RA91P)
Winchester Ranger-T 127 gr +P+ JHP (RA9TA)
Federal Tactical 135 gr +P JHP (LE9T5)
Federal HST 147 gr JHP (P9HST2)
Remington Golden Saber 147 gr JHP (GS9MMC)
Speer Gold Dot 147 gr JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 147 gr JHP (RA9T)
Winchester 147 gr bonded JHP (RA9B/Q4364)

[Jay Cunningham]

I guess the question boils down to this: Is the 40S&W enough of an improvement in ballistics over the 9mm to justify sticking with the 40 rather than moving completely to 9mm?

IMO no.

Use the right ammunition and all of the major service pistol loads are excellent performers.

[ToddG]

I have to agree with Katarzan (who is very cool, btw ... sorry, inside joke). But with one caveat:

If in your mind you'll feel better equipped with the .40, carry the .40 S&W. A close friend of mine is going through this same dilemma. He's issued a Glock 22, but a limited amount of ammo. For him, carrying the 9mm on duty is not an option ... he would switch to a G17 or G19 in a heartbeat if he could. But since he can't, we've been working on a plan for him to practice with the abundant 9mm at his disposal without getting bad habits that will hurt his performance with the .40-cal G22.

Now, will shooting the 9mm a lot impact your performance? Depends on you. Depends on how you practice, how much you practice, and exactly what you practice.

Things that will be identical and can easily be practiced with the 9mm:

• One-shot trigger manipulation drills (i.e., fundamental marksmanship)
• Presentation from the holster
• Reloads
• SHO and WHO marksmanship
• Shooting on the move
• Stoppage/malf clearance drills
• Threat/Non-threat (judgmental) shooting
• Use of cover
• Officer down/unusual positions

What will be different:

• Multiple shots on one target
• Target to target transitions (not a big difference, but it's there)
• Anything else involving recoil management
• Shooting at longer distances or anything else that requires you to learn and understand the trajectory of your ammo from your gun

My personal practice is to shoot a "cold" drill, like F.A.S.T. or Triple Nickel or even a simple Bill drill as the very first thing when I get to the range. I do the same drill just about every time and track my performance. That way, I can see where my on demand skill level is from day to day and year to year. I would recommend doing that with your .40 and either duty ammo or ammo that closely resembles it in recoil characteristics.

Then I'd probably do about 50 rounds worth of simple recoil management stuff with the forty, multiple shots on one or multiple targets. Just to verify that I'm dialed in on my grip, stance, etc.

After that, work on marksmanship fundamentals, manipulations, draws, etc. You can do all that with the 9mm.

Then I'd end the session with a little 25yd bullseye and finally another run or two on the drill you started with at the beginning, firing all told another 50 or so rounds of duty (or duty-like) ammo.

Once in a while, I'd splurge and spend a full session working with the .40 just to keep on top of my recoil management, etc.

Shooting a lot of .40 is better than shooting half .40 and half 9mm. But shooting half .40 and half 9mm is a heck of a lot better than shooting just a little .40 once in a while.

[DocGKR]

Todd offered some good advice. Either the 9 mm or .40 S&W will work for you--I'd lean towards picking one and sticking with it.

Personally, the .40 M&P's are my favorites. For a variety of reasons that have nothing to do with the M&P, I am sticking with Glocks for 9 mm.

Even if your department won't pay for your practice ammo, see if you can arrange a way to buy a few cases of cheap practice fodder from your state LE contract--that might allow you shoot more.

[RWK]

I'd lean towards picking one and sticking with it.

Same here. At the end of last year I ditched everything .40 S&W and went back to 9mm. The differences in handling between .40 S&W and 9mm are considerable if you don't shoot a lot (of .40 S&W).

[rob_s]

98z28, I've been considering somewhat the same thing, but with .45 and 9mm. I think the difference there may be greater, albeit not much.

My issue is one of an injury to my shooting hand/arm that's been bothering me lately. As Todd says, I just *feel* better carrying .45 than I do 9mm, and frankly for the vast majority of us that sense of security is really why we carry. Your duty use is a bit different.

I also think that Todd is spot-on with regards to shooting the .40 at the beginning and the end of any training session with either your carry load or a close proximity thereof.

[markm]

I do exactly this. I carry a G22. I don't care what the internuts or blocks of Jello say! I can not warm up to 9mm as a primary carry round.

So I bought a G17 to practice with. I can reload 9mm for cheap. I don't have 40 smith dies. I have the exact same sights on my 17 that I do on my carry gun.

[98z28]

Todd offered some good advice. Either the 9 mm or .40 S&W will work for you--I'd lean towards picking one and sticking with it.

Personally, the .40 M&P's are my favorites. For a variety of reasons that have nothing to do with the M&P, I am sticking with Glocks for 9 mm.

Even if your department won't pay for your practice ammo, see if you can arrange a way to buy a few cases of cheap practice fodder from your state LE contract--that might allow you shoot more.

That is a great idea that I need to check into. Thanks.

DocGKR,

Would you lose sleep at night if you switched completely to 9mm for duty use? I am not particularly hung up on the .40 round. However, I have picked up from your posts over at Tactical Forums that the .40 does offer some advantage over the 9mm after passing through intermediate barriers. I just do not know the magnitude of the advantage and whether or not I should even be worried about it.

Thanks guys for all of the great opinions!

[DocGKR]

Wouldn't loose sleep over it, but if I mainly worked around vehicles, I'd lean towards a larger caliber because of glass.

For me, it is less a caliber choice than it is a platform choice; once I have chosen my platform, then the caliber falls into place:

Glocks, Sigs, Hi-Powers, Berrettas and most other European pistols = 9 mm
1911's = .45 ACP
M&P = .40 S&W and .45 ACP

[98z28]

Wouldn't loose sleep over it, but if I mainly worked around vehicles, I'd lean towards a larger caliber because of glass.

For me, it is less a caliber choice than it is a platform choice; once I have chosen my platform, then the caliber falls into place:

Glocks, Sigs, Hi-Powers, Berrettas and most other European pistols = 9 mm
1911's = .45 ACP
M&P = .40 S&W and .45 ACP

Crap. You are not helping Doc. Why don't you just tell me what I want to hear instead of giving me your real opinion!

Seriously, thanks again guys.