Custom 1911's and their prices

[Pappabear]

Let me share my thoughts from the past then you take it from there.

You need to spend $1,000 to get a decent 1911, duty quality. I kinda think the MC Operator is the starting point. If you have a bit a cabbage, the TRP is worth the money and many folks would say that is the starting point for, count your life on it quality gun. I just bought a SS TRP with 200 rounds down the pipe for $999, but they sell upwards of $1,500. Great gun, I love my TRP.

Then you bump up to the low end of the Custom category with guns in the $2,300 to $2,600 range. Truly awesome gun made with great quality parts and hand built. Well it appears this class of guns has gone from $2,300 -$2,600 to $3,300 - $3,600. It seems like in the last 10 years, the standard Wilson and NHC, have gone up =$1,000. The Talon, GRP , CQB lines.

You can find Ed Browns and Dan Wesson stuff in low $2's. And they are nice too, even though I think Browns CS is sad, they make a decent gun.

My real question after my rant is what do you get when you go from $3,K class of gun to $5,000 class of gun. And there are plenty of $4,500 and up guns. In my opinion you start to get diminishing returns after the TRP but justifiable quality bump for the legally insane, but what about these Tactical Supergrades, Agent 2 or VIP and so on?

Somebody speak to this class of guns please.

PB

[opngrnd]

I have absolutely no idea what anything like that would be like. I do remember in one of the threads on this forum, someone did the math and figured out that 1911 gunsmith essentially make $10 an hour. When you look at how much time it takes to do things by hand, that doesn't really surprise me if it's true.

[nightchief]

This is my experience with Wilson Combat...

I was interested in having a full size constructed with my particular wants. This resulted in a rather in depth discussion with a customer rep at WC. We discussed the different levels of a WC pistol build and why the cost is different. My CQB is one of their "low end" pistols. From order to transfer was less than three months. While everything is hand fitted, they are still assembly line constructed. Many of the parts are pre-done from what I gathered talking to the rep, which is why the build didn't take very long. A Supergrade, one of WC's $5-7K 1911's is made truly from scratch and the pistol smiths spend A LOT more time fitting and finishing the parts. They also can take multiple years to complete. So the cost is effectively more time and (hand) labor spent building one the high end guns.

My CQB actually has some minor tooling and imperfections in it. It's really designed to be a working, carry, etc pistol where as I see the Supergrade being designed as a safe (space) queen. Now, WC's quality and workmanship standard on their "low end" 1911 is still very good.

I spent about 18 months researching builders but never got beyond the looking stage with any other than WC and Nighthawk. I never asked the questions of Nighthawk that I did with Wilson.

NC

[gaijin]

I'm in agreement with NC and this is the best answer I can come up with PB:

Wilson makes a good gun, no argument. However you will pay for it.

Look at used Wilson prices (1911 Addicts Forum classifieds a prime example).
Buying their "working man's guns" CQB as example, you'll pay a premium over some comparable guns (arguably- Baer, SA's upper tier).
Like most guns, go to sell it and you're losing 30% with gun still in preemo shape.
Buy, then sell a "Supergrade"- and good luck finding a buyer for 50% of your initial outlay.
The "Supergrade", although allegedly a handbuilt gun, is in- or real close to the price range of some pretty good custom gunsmiths- with a similar timeframe on buildout.

I'm not bashing Wilson guns, I'll admit to owning two of his 1911's. (I did buy them used however.)

If I'm going to lay out $5K+ on a 1911, it's gonna be a Colt or SA base gun, built by a competent custom smith to my specs, using parts I prefer.

[Pappabear]

This is pretty much what I thought. And I just took that used route buying a Heine NHC with 100 rounds down the pipe for $1,950 plus a very nice knife. I got the knife very cheap so it came out to about $2,200 for a LNIB NHC. Its in route to me know. The pictures where stunning. The same gun on GB was $3400. I will shoot this gun, I have but one safe queen, a Dirty Harry 44 mag that was test fired twice at the factory. The blueing is insane. I cant make myself shoot that one.


What do you guys think about guns ( Colts & SA) sent in and redone at SACS?

[gaijin]

Springfields Custom Shop had a good rep PB, from what I've heard recently it sounds like they're currently having "problems".
If true, this is a shame- as Dave Williams (that runs the Custom Shop) was a good smith.

I think I'd try NH for custom work first as I've read some good reports on their quality.

My personal preference would be to send work to Jim Milks/"Innovative Custom Guns", BEC/"Business End Customs" or another custom smith of known quality. Downside; wait time and cost.
FWIW; a Colt base gun nearly always brings a premium after custom work due to it being a "Colt".
That said, I have a couple SA's that were used as base guns that are certainly the equal of my Colts.

You may find this of interest-
https://www.1911addicts.com/threads/...cs-work.25739/

https://www.1911addicts.com/threads/...om-shop.35676/

https://www.1911addicts.com/threads/...wo-tone.38316/

[sevin8nin]

What do you guys think about guns ( Colts & SA) sent in and redone at SACS?

I wish SACS was still the full custom shop that it used to be. Currently their list of 'work' that they'll perform on Springfields only is pitiful. Sights and finish for the most part. I AM going to send them my Springfield Combat Operator to get a match barrel fit, at least that's on the list.
The Springfield Custom Carry that I had spec'd out and built by them was one of the finest pistols i've ever seen. Maybe not as fancy looking as a $5k Wilson or Nighthawk, but I didn't ask for that. If you wanted french borders and top serrations and extreme carry bevels and hi-power cuts they'd do it. AND they'd do it for less.
Once upon a time I had a Nighthawk on order, back when GRPs were like $1900. I spec'd out an Enforcer the way I wanted it and was told 6 months by the local rep. 11 months later and many lies and excuses, I had the gun in my hand, and not only had they 'forgotten' to use a couple of parts from the build sheet, but it had finish missing inside the magwell. Rep told me it would be 3-4 months to fix because it was just "so hard" to get DLC finish out of their finisher. Offered to refinish it in whatever NH was doing for standard black at the time, which i was watching peel off of customer guns and have to get warranty replaced. SO, ultimately I told them to keep the gun and give me my money back.
I went to SACS with a slightly modified build sheet, a year is a lot of time after all, was quoted a lower price and a 6 month turn around time. 4 months later my gun was in hand and it was amazing. It was Les Baer tight out of the box, but functioning flawlessly with a variety of ammo through 15 different magazines on a 32deg night. My friend brought his brand new NH T3 that same night and it wouldn't finish a single magazine without a FTF.

TLDR: SACS did great work. I really hope they start offering it again because at present it's where I'd like to send 1911s.

[diving dave]

Quite a few years ago I blew some cash on a NHC Enforcer, with the DLC coating. Ran me about $3300 when done. That being said, it is the finest 1911 pistol I have ever owned. Probably about 8K rounds through her, and other than new recoil and mag springs, never have had a problem. I even carried it on duty for about 7 years when I worked as a LEO. Thousands of draws from the holster, dust, rain, handgun classes etc, she still looks new. Well worth the money in my book. Since I'm retired now , usual carry is an M&P but I still have a soft spot for the 1911.

[Wake27]

SACS did do a fantastic job on my CRG. I too wish they’d go back to being a full shop. As much as I appreciate the work on custom 1911, I don’t think I could ever bring myself to spend that much on one. I’ll drop $2k on a rifle all day, but doing it for a pistol for some reason is hard for me.


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[YVK]

When you do custom anything, I mean true customs, "what do you get" is answered by "what did you ask for". You get a 100-150 hours of a very skilled labor, and that brings the 6000 or so price tag. My two full customs have stuff done to them that you won't find anywhere. They have parts that have been patented. The one that I commissioned myself was built with a specific philosophy and requests. They are mechanically and ergonomically immaculate - yes, more so than 2500 guns but the difference is non incremental.
Custom gun prices are defined not by their cost effectiveness or money well spent but by individual values placed on those guns by whoever buys them. Which is why I personally don't do high end semi customs. I'd be happy with $1500 -2500 production or lower end semi custom but if I went higher, I'd save up for a one of type of build.