NEW Federal Hydra-Shok Deep

[MegademiC]

What evidence is there to provide? A fmj does 20 to 30 inches in gel in most cases if it doesn't delfect and a flat nosed hard cast does 30 to 40 inches compared to a hollow point that does 12 to 16 on average.

Correct. Sim test is not ballistic gel but it's very close and when the same calibrated Sim test is used, you can measure one bullet against another. The Speer Gold Dot did 12.25 while the Silvertip did 11.25.

The evidence would be test results. Have you Tested or seen tested, a 9mm fmj through autoglass, then calibrated ballistics gel? Or are you assuming fmj would penetrate more?

16 isn't enough in all cases. That's my point. In most cases yes but not in all. If for example you have to take a shot at 25 yards and it goes through a barrier, it isn't going to penetrate 16 inches with the velocity loss like it did when tested at 10 ft.

Whether you should take a shot at 25 yards is another matter but I'd rather have that capability if a pistol was my only weapon and a home depot truck was mowing down a crowd.

Why would 16” not be enough after passing through autoglass or a car door?

[Arik]

Howdy,

Do you have experienced shooting into moving vehicles during a stressful situation.....from a distance? Can you hit the barely visible driver or are your bullets just going to punch through both doors and continue on? And if you miss? Oops? Oh well?

and yet there's evidence over and over and over again that guns are great for stopping someone and full metal jacket is even worse

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[wtm75]

The evidence would be test results. Have you Tested or seen tested, a 9mm fmj through autoglass, then calibrated ballistics gel? Or are you assuming fmj would penetrate more?



Why would 16” not be enough after passing through autoglass or a car door?

Fmj would penetrate more because it wouldn't expand, cause drag to parachute to a stop but it could deform though. A hard cast or solid copper wouldn't deform or expand and it'll penetrate deeper. It'll have less drag.

The expanded hollow point always penetrates less due to drag. You can't beat physics and that's why hollow points always penetrate less than solid bullets.

[wtm75]

Howdy,

Do you have experienced shooting into moving vehicles during a stressful situation.....from a distance? Can you hit the barely visible driver or are your bullets just going to punch through both doors and continue on? And if you miss? Oops? Oh well?

and yet there's evidence over and over and over again that guns are great for stopping someone and full metal jacket is even worse

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

No. I don't have that experience. But that doesn't mean that because I don't I should forego that capability.

Many of us don't have experience in shooting someone point blank. Does that mean we shouldn't carry a gun?

Experts say what experts say but the fact of the matter is that if shot in the brain, heart, spinal column, ect, it isn't going to make a difference if the bullet is .355 in diameter or .624 in diameter. Dead is dead. A black powdered lead ball had no issues in stopping power way back when when vitals were struck. Same goes with a knife or any other instrument that penetrates a vital.

[Arik]

If you're comparing point blank to tens of feet/yards on a fast moving vehicle with an almost invisible driver and on top of that head shots! Then I got nothing. I can't have a discussion with a call of duty game

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[wtm75]

If you're comparing point blank to tens of feet/yards on a fast moving vehicle with an almost invisible driver and on top of that head shots! Then I got nothing. I can't have a discussion with a call of duty game

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Who said anything about head shots? And for your information I have 2 deployments under my belt. Whether I have the skill to make that shot or not is of no concern when my life is on the line. I may not have the skill to make a shot on an Afghan insurgent with an M16a4 at 800 yards but that doesn't mean I just freeze in place when fired upon because I've never done it and only qualified at 500 yards. You still shoot back.

[Uni-Vibe]

Wat?

The whole point of modern wound ballistics is that the bullets we pull out of people resemble the bullets we pull out of gel.

If Im reading this correctly, it seems that you complaining that technology moves forward and as things get better the previous generation gets obsolescent...thats like saying we might as well be carborators instead of fuel injected engines because who knows where technology will go in the future.

No, they don't, and that's part of my argument.

How many of y'all, honest, have seen either detailed photographs or actual bullets that have been pulled out of human bodies? I daresay very few.

If you did, you'd marvel at how almost none of them look like bullets pulled out of gel, or bullets pulled out of bullet advertisements. They look, most of them, just as I describe: either fairly pristine, or mangled amorphously.

[MegademiC]

Fmj would penetrate more because it wouldn't expand, cause drag to parachute to a stop but it could deform though. A hard cast or solid copper wouldn't deform or expand and it'll penetrate deeper. It'll have less drag.

The expanded hollow point always penetrates less due to drag. You can't beat physics and that's why hollow points always penetrate less than solid bullets.

You are assuming. Why dont you test it and report back the results- with fmj?

I thought this seemed familiar.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread...ge9&styleid=10