Marty Daniels, Owner of Daniel Defense, goes full gun control.

[Averageman]

But who decides what is "normal"?

Everyone reacts and copes to things differently. IMO "normal" is another blanket statement based on the issuer's personal experiences/views/beliefs/morals/etc.

Yes people take advantage of the system, that happens with any system. As people have pointed out the current name may be PTSD but the condition/phenomenon has been around for as long as war itself.

Like I said and as the many posted examples have noted, nobody is "normal" and everyone has their weight to bear through life.
Psychology is a rather new phenomenon and it certainly isn't an exact science. War may change things in people's lives and even have some influence over things far in to the future for the veteran, but it doesn't have to be crippling.
I think that the offered "help" alongside medication may sometimes be more traumatic than the events.
Out of all of those guys around that table, nobody drank themselves to death, nobody didn't have a good job with a nice income and they all had relatively nice families.
What I have noticed though is that around 1975, people started giving a lot of attention to the small numbers of Vets who couldn't cope.
Now it would seem that nobody copes, Veteran or not.

[Coal Dragger]

On your last point we agree.

However, stigmatizing people for PTSD is a major contributing factor to veteran suicide. I see it all the time in my vet groups on Facebook. Guys won't get help because they don't want the label and the issues that come along with it. Sometimes they wind up putting a gun in their mouth as a result.

Not to worry, the benevolent government will take those scary guns away because as a few of our members pointed out they’re not fit to have guns.

Then those vets can kill themselves by other means, like hanging, or OD’ing on something. That’s OK because they’re damaged goods, and are mentally defective. Those pieces of shit deserve what they get!

I think that sums up their position.

I don’t agree with it, but that’s essentially what I’m reading.

[ABNAK]

I don't know when I came to the conclusion that everyone is at least a little crazy and a bit of an asshole, but I'm sure it was before seventh grade.
I'm pretty sure if group therapy and counseling were good for you, we would have cured all the worlds ills by now. If you mentally have at least one of your two oars still in the water the smart thing to do is not tell anyone about the other one and make your life a bit bigger and nicer than it was..
I'm in my late 50's now and I come from a family of Military guys. So, it wasn't unusual as a kid to be having dinner with WWII, Korea and Viet Nam vets all around the same table. Nobody went to counseling, nobody took pills to cope and more pills to sleep and collected PTSD money from the VA.
So what changed?
We changed, we bought the story that you cant go to combat and come back and be "normal" again.
Hell, you were nuts when you volunteered.

My grandfather was a WWII Marine vet. Guadalcanal, Munda, Bougainville (the Solomon Islands campaign). He got malaria and "combat fatigue". Had the party-sized bottle of Valium and Thorazine from the VA. As I was growing up I recall hearing about Grandpa's "nerves". I heard he could be a real sumbitch back in the day and he did have very little patience (which I guess I am afflicted with). But he was always good to me, albeit cranky at times but my favorite grandfather. I looked up to him. I found him dead the day after Christmas in '93 of natural causes. In some strange way I felt it fitting that it was me, out of anyone else in the family, that found him.

Should he have been denied the RKBA? He had a couple of guns in the house, most of which I got after he died. Never recall a "situation" arising as a result of his firearm ownership. In fact, he bought me my first M1 Garand not long after I got out of the Army.

I have said it before: not being a combat vet I still realize PTSD/combat fatigue/shell shock are real. VERY real. It was real for my grandfather for decades. Nonetheless in this modern era the automatic 30% (at a minimum) VA disability rating is no doubt enticing to a young guy getting out or an older guy retiring. But as I have feared it will be used to f**k these guys over, as we are likely seeing now.

Sad conundrum......forgo help and you perhaps end up eating a Glock. Seek help and that Glock is taken from you.

[Coal Dragger]

We don’t need any adjudication! Sure as hell no set in stone method for guys or gals in a rough spot to get their rights and property back!

Screw those veterans! Only dummies join the military, they cannot be trusted!

~ Some of our members.

[Dist. Expert 26]

Like I said and as the many posted examples have noted, nobody is "normal" and everyone has their weight to bear through life.
Psychology is a rather new phenomenon and it certainly isn't an exact science. War may change things in people's lives and even have some influence over things far in to the future for the veteran, but it doesn't have to be crippling.
I think that the offered "help" alongside medication may sometimes be more traumatic than the events.
Out of all of those guys around that table, nobody drank themselves to death, nobody didn't have a good job with a nice income and they all had relatively nice families.
What I have noticed though is that around 1975, people started giving a lot of attention to the small numbers of Vets who couldn't cope.
Now it would seem that nobody copes, Veteran or not.

Dude you really need to do some research before spouting off like this.

No, everyone doesn't get PTSD. Some people go to war and come back just as they were. It really depends on their experiences. Not everyone watches their best friend bleed to death or has to call a CASEVAC for a 5 year old who's missing a leg. Tell me you could go through that and cope perfectly and I'll call you a bold faced liar.

Not all PTSD is crippling, in fact most isn't. Don't be so quick to make assumptions.

[R6436]

Like I said and as the many posted examples have noted, nobody is "normal" and everyone has their weight to bear through life.
Psychology is a rather new phenomenon and it certainly isn't an exact science. War may change things in people's lives and even have some influence over things far in to the future for the veteran, but it doesn't have to be crippling.
I think that the offered "help" alongside medication may sometimes be more traumatic than the events.
Out of all of those guys around that table, nobody drank themselves to death, nobody didn't have a good job with a nice income and they all had relatively nice families.
What I have noticed though is that around 1975, people started giving a lot of attention to the small numbers of Vets who couldn't cope.
Now it would seem that nobody copes, Veteran or not.

Your last two sentences I think hit the nail on the head. A change in presentation & perception. As you stated "the small numbers of Vets who couldn't cope." To me this opened the door to various entities to subtly start making a mountain out of a mole hill. By no means am I denying there are people out there who honestly need help coping with events. I want to be clear on that. Without verified hard date on hand, I do wonder how many people really need help versus how many the media and others may claim need it. Its like the numbers they throw out after every shooting, only a small portion of the over all picture, but one that can be used to further an agenda.

I don't think PTSD diagnosis should be grounds for automatic loss of firearms. First off there needs to be due process, and each case looked at on an individual level. If a person presents a legitimate risk to themselves or others then, and only then, do I feel it would be OK to TEMPORARILY remove their access to firearms until the situation has been resolved.

That's just my 2-cents, and I'm sure I've probably contradicted some of my other knee-jerk posts here and other topics.

[Todd.K]

Guys won't get help because they don't want the label and the issues that come along with it.

If you fit the description above, please find a Vet Center and give it a try. No diagnosis, pills, or disability rating was pushed. Just a bit of filling in the blanks on why we feel and react the way we do to some things and some ways to try to get ahead of that loop.

Some of the attitudes on display here are downright shameful.

[Averageman]

Dude you really need to do some research before spouting off like this.

No, everyone doesn't get PTSD. Some people go to war and come back just as they were. It really depends on their experiences. Not everyone watches their best friend bleed to death or has to call a CASEVAC for a 5 year old who's missing a leg. Tell me you could go through that and cope perfectly and I'll call you a bold faced liar.

Not all PTSD is crippling, in fact most isn't. Don't be so quick to make assumptions.

I'm not making an assumption.
I saw this coming fourteen years ago and when the diagnosis became an easy 50%.
I warned people against it unless it was a very vital necessity. If you need help get it, but if you can work it out without involving government agencies, that's the very smart way to handle your affairs in life.
In all honesty, if you cannot cope and cannot hold a job or lead a normal life, then take the diagnosis and the money, but their were always going to be strings attached.

[R6436]

If you fit the description above, please find a Vet Center and give it a try. No diagnosis, pills, or disability rating was pushed. Just a bit of filling in the blanks on why we feel and react the way we do to some things and some ways to try to get ahead of that loop.

Some of the attitudes on display here are downright shameful.

And in all seriousness, depending on your daily social circle a Vet Center can be a nice place to hang out and get to know fellow vets from multiple generations. Last time I was at the one in Cedar Rapids I was able to talk with a 'Nam vet I shared an MOS with while also answering questions from a younger Iraq vet that was looking to switch to a different MOS. When I left I felt good knowing there were others with similar experiences to my own, that I was able to share in camaraderie I wouldn't have otherwise been able to, and to a lesser degree help further the knowledge of a younger troop.

[Averageman]

My grandfather was a WWII Marine vet. Guadalcanal, Munda, Bougainville (the Solomon Islands campaign). He got malaria and "combat fatigue". Had the party-sized bottle of Valium and Thorazine from the VA. As I was growing up I recall hearing about Grandpa's "nerves". I heard he could be a real sumbitch back in the day and he did have very little patience (which I guess I am afflicted with). But he was always good to me, albeit cranky at times but my favorite grandfather. I looked up to him. I found him dead the day after Christmas in '93 of natural causes. In some strange way I felt it fitting that it was me, out of anyone else in the family, that found him.

Should he have been denied the RKBA? He had a couple of guns in the house, most of which I got after he died. Never recall a "situation" arising as a result of his firearm ownership. In fact, he bought me my first M1 Garand not long after I got out of the Army.

I have said it before: not being a combat vet I still realize PTSD/combat fatigue/shell shock are real. VERY real. It was real for my grandfather for decades. Nonetheless in this modern era the automatic 30% (at a minimum) VA disability rating is no doubt enticing to a young guy getting out or an older guy retiring. But as I have feared it will be used to f**k these guys over, as we are likely seeing now.

Sad conundrum......forgo help and you perhaps end up eating a Glock. Seek help and that Glock is taken from you.

If you told your Grandfather he was mentally defective because of his service related experiences and he needed to give up his guns, you would have likely had a hell of a fight on your hands.
As a grumpy old SOB myself, I'm sure I would have enjoyed his company.
Cultures change and here we are now, it's a sad state of affairs, but we brought it on ourselves.