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Thread: M1 carbine reliability confusion...

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dump1567 View Post
    KEN HACKATHORN ON THE M1 CARBINE: REPUTATION VS REALITY

    https://www.full30.com/video/0779a1a...9250875167173c
    Interesting what he said about failures being subject to what era they occurred in. I think he is correct in that today we have YouTube, cellphones, other media to record failures in any weapon. And in agreement I'll allow that "tighter" acceptable standards are a good thing as technology progresses, and should be expected. That said, his analogy of some WWII/Korea grunt quickly clearing a failure-to-whatever and continuing on with the mission is spot on. We are much more persnickety and detail oriented these days (not a bad thing).

    Hell, it's not like the Carbine was a Chauchat!
    11C2P '83-'87
    Airborne Infantry

  2. #22
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    Exactly right, ABNAK. He puts the Carbine into good perspective as to the era it was developed and used in compared to today's every increasing expectations for finer accuracy, longer durability, and minimal failures. The Carbine will not fair well in a comparison to the AR15 being at near the same price point today, and lacking the flexibility, accuracy, range and ammo selection that the AR15 has. BUT, that does not mean it is ineffective either. As Hackathorn says, within 100 yds the M1 Carbine is still a very capable fighting weapon. And it is very streamlined and lightweight. Today we expect magazines to be semi-permanent parts of the weapon, but back in WW2 they were considered disposable items.

    I did not hear him mention it, but I think the "success" of the Carbine has to include that its design was also impacted by the need to be able to produce them quickly and cheaply on "light" machining tools (mostly stamped) with minimal forgings and intricate machining required unlike the M1 Garand. It was more acceptable then to give up some capability in the field in order to be able to produce more than 1 million per year.

    At any rate, I love shooting my Carbines which are very reliable, and I would not hesitate to use them for home defense if needed. But I choose to use my AR15s and Glocks as primary defense weapons due to improved modern design and parts availability.

    As a side note, it kind of baffles me that as far as I can see wages have not kept up with the inflation of many capital goods, yet 70-100 yrs ago companies could afford much more intricate machining and construction than we can today with all the advanced machines that were supposed to enable us to create things better and faster.
    It is in vain, sir, to extenuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! ... Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!" - Patrick Henry in an address at St. Johnís Church, Richmond, Virginia, on March 23, 1775.

  3. #23
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    All,

    There's an M1 Carbine collector who basically says that if you're buying a USGI Carbine that's under ~$1000, you're likely getting a mish-mash of inauthentic parts OR you're getting an unsafe gun (hairline fractures, worn-down bolts with improper headspace, etc):


    1. Is what he's saying true? (I'm not an expert.) I don't mind the lack of authenticity; what I do mind is getting a USGI Carbine to train my kids/wife and having it blow up in their face.

    2. If it is true, are these the four options for newly produced M1 Carbine reproductions?

    - Kahr/Auto-Ordnance: ~$750
    - Inland: ~$1000
    - James River Armory/Rock-ola: ~$1250
    - Fulton Armory: ~$1500

    Respectfully,
    butlers
    Last edited by butlers; 08-01-18 at 18:36.
    "The nation that will insist on drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking done by cowards."
    William Francis Butler

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by butlers View Post
    All,

    There's an M1 Carbine collector who basically says that if you're buying a USGI Carbine that's under ~$1000, you're likely getting a mish-mash of inauthentic parts OR you're getting an unsafe gun (hairline fractures, worn-down bolts with improper headspace, etc):


    1. Is what he's saying true? (I'm not an expert.) I don't mind the lack of authenticity; what I do mind is getting a USGI Carbine to train my kids/wife and having it blow up in their face.

    2. If it is true, are these the four options for newly produced M1 Carbine reproductions?

    - Kahr/Auto-Ordnance: ~$750
    - Inland: ~$1000
    - James River Armory/Rock-ola: ~$1250
    - Fulton Armory: ~$1500

    Respectfully,
    butlers
    I've bought a Winchester USGI 1,3xx,xxx that was partially "corrected", and an Inland USGI 937,xxx Arsenal rebuild that is most likely exactly as it was when it was rebuilt since March, and it's been my experience thus far after quite a bit of accuracy, and reliablity testing, that in the role of a personal defense firearm in 2018...the USGI or any other commercial carbine for that matter is a very poor choice for a number of reasons. The Fulton Armory models are the only commercial model I'd personal own. Things like it's reliablity difficulties unless completely gone over by a really qualified person, it's terminal ballistics whether b/c it's a pistol caliber, the fact that many carbines don't like softpoint ammo, or the fact that it's tough to mount optics, and a WL on it are among reasons why one should pass on a USGI carbine as a first pick self defense firearm imho.

    USGI carbines are akin to owning classic cars, as in there's lots to learn, and the more you can work on them yourself, and know what your doing, the better. In my area with lots of gun stores and gun smiths, none of them had the tools to measure, and work on them, so you'll end up having to buy, borrow, or beg for various tools to perform work on your carbine/s. Authentic USGI springs and parts are at the absolute bottom of the barrel in terms of supply. Once the CMP non auction rifles ran out, it has become much more difficult to determine which carbines are reliable, and safe without knowing how to do it yourself, or knowing a friend who can help when buying one.

    With all that said above, I'm only falling more and more in love with USGI carbines as each week, and month goes by. I love them for what they are, an incredibly fun gun to shoot, that ooze history. They are just special little rifles imho. I just can't use them in the face of a LMT/KAC/Colt AR, as I'd be putting myself at an extreme disadvantage.

    Just my 2cents.


    Eta....A Colt 6720 would be the perfect carbine to train a wife/kid with in my book. A 6520 for even more KISS.
    Last edited by ALCOAR; 08-01-18 at 20:10.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by butlers View Post
    All,

    There's an M1 Carbine collector who basically says that if you're buying a USGI Carbine that's under ~$1000, you're likely getting a mish-mash of inauthentic parts OR you're getting an unsafe gun (hairline fractures, worn-down bolts with improper headspace, etc):


    1. Is what he's saying true? (I'm not an expert.) I don't mind the lack of authenticity; what I do mind is getting a USGI Carbine to train my kids/wife and having it blow up in their face.

    2. If it is true, are these the four options for newly produced M1 Carbine reproductions?

    - Kahr/Auto-Ordnance: ~$750
    - Inland: ~$1000
    - James River Armory/Rock-ola: ~$1250
    - Fulton Armory: ~$1500

    Respectfully,
    butlers
    I own a Auto Ordnance M1 Carbine and I suggest you steer clear of them. Quality control is not good.

    A friend owns an Inland M1 Carbine and it functions fine. I've seen him fire it in a few matches and he had no issues. His carbine has had less than 1,000 rounds fired through it, so he hasn't fired it enough to comment about reliability and durability.

    I own a Quality Hardware M1 Carbine that had a like new barrel and bolt on it when I bought it. It was apparently rebuilt at an armory and is not collectable.
    Last edited by T2C; 08-01-18 at 21:07.
    Train 2 Win

  6. #26
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    I've got an AutoOrdinance model. First 300 rounds were a little rough feeding right. Bought a new KCI (I think, Korean new manufacture) magazine and found it was better than the one supplied by AO. Now I have a handful of good magazines and I would trust the rifle not to malfunction. Had to mount a new handguard with a rail to get a red dot going on it. Yes, it looks like a bubba gun, but it shoots fine.
    Worth $750. Nope. This is a $300 plinker if you can find one at that price. I'm keeping mine, but I won't buy another.

  7. #27
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    Ken Hackathorn gives a good assessment of the M-1 Carbine here. Basically if you have an original Carbine change the recoil spring since it is likely older than you are and treat the fragile weak magazines as consumables.


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