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Thread: Army looking at a new 6.8mm round?

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    Army looking at a new 6.8mm round?


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    Sounds like the Holy Grail of a caseless round for weight- ala ‘Aliens’ rifles. Brass isn’t light, but I don’t see some polymer/steel combo being that much lighter. Optimizing caliber/bullet tech seems a better solution in the long term.

    See it mentions the 6.5 switch for snipers as a related topic.
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    How the heck could you have a caseless round? As long as there's gunpowder as opposed to electromagnetically/hydraulically/pneumatically propelling a cartridge, the powder is going to have to go somewhere.

    6.8SPC is already a USGI round, would just require barrels/muzzle devices to be replaced and new bolts installed. Maybe, but not likely a heavier buffer weight. Magazines would be unaffected, but would lose slight capacity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pubb View Post
    How the heck could you have a caseless round? As long as there's gunpowder as opposed to electromagnetically/hydraulically/pneumatically propelling a cartridge, the powder is going to have to go somewhere.

    6.8SPC is already a USGI round, would just require barrels/muzzle devices to be replaced and new bolts installed. Maybe, but not likely a heavier buffer weight. Magazines would be unaffected, but would lose slight capacity.
    Many write-ups on the caseless unicorn, program briefs, etc.

    6.8 spc and 6.5 Grendel do not justify the logistics change apparently. And have weight/capacity tradeoffs, which is one of the aggressive goals of caseless.

    I'm a longtime Grendel shooter, but I sortoff see their point.

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    Good lord lots of non-information in that article, caseless is still a dead end with current tech, the round they are moving towards is a 6.5 polymer cased telescoped. Do a google on LSAT (Lightweight Small Arms Technologies).

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    Quote Originally Posted by mack7.62 View Post
    Good lord lots of non-information in that article, caseless is still a dead end with current tech, the round they are moving towards is a 6.5 polymer cased telescoped. Do a google on LSAT (Lightweight Small Arms Technologies).
    I've read literally everything that's publicly available on LSAT in it's various incarnations.

    That's why my OP was really framed as a question to spark discussion. Typo? This news about 6.8 is really out of the blue. Everything thus far has been .264USA, 6.5 Creed, 6.5CT, 6.5CTLD, etc...

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    I am not sure if it is a typo or another group on the .gov teat pushing a different caliber just to keep the paychecks coming. From what I understand 6.8 is an excellent mid range round but a dead end for long range which is where the 6.5 shines and lots of development is being done on the 6.5 cased telescoped. So IMO this is either a big ol' typo or someone fishing for mo' taxpayer money.
    Last edited by mack7.62; 05-11-18 at 08:46.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pubb View Post
    How the heck could you have a caseless round? As long as there's gunpowder as opposed to electromagnetically/hydraulically/pneumatically propelling a cartridge, the powder is going to have to go somewhere.

    6.8SPC is already a USGI round, would just require barrels/muzzle devices to be replaced and new bolts installed. Maybe, but not likely a heavier buffer weight. Magazines would be unaffected, but would lose slight capacity.
    The “case” is a solid propellent that reacts and becomes gas upon fireing.. Previous issues included degredation due to heat.

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    If you look at the deaired max recoil and ammo weight profile combined with the performance expectations down range it's pretty clear that a 6.5 projectile will be a sweet spot for carbines.

    Especially when vest penetration (requiring velocity) , BC, sectional density is factored in.

    I expect we'll see 90-115g projectiles, lead free, etc. 6.5mm is the sweet spot for those.

    This also applies to comments in the other thread on creedmore about adoption of 6.8 spc. My prediction: ain't gonna happen. (Or Grendel, or any other non-caseless breakthrough)

    Just too many compromises (capacity, weight) with the offsetting improvements1 not solving perceived critical problems at hand. (Talking about big army priorities, I know all the advantages Grendel/spc offers. I'm sold. They are not, yet.)

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    6.5mm and .338 (8.6mm) seem to be the sweet spots.

    All that said, SSD had an article today or yesterday that showed the small arms roadmap and it was really interesting.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

    Edit: http://soldiersystems.net/2018/05/10...zation-update/
    Last edited by mig1nc; 05-11-18 at 12:47.

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