Wireless routers and other tech things

[rjacobs]

Dude....I am trying to help you here...and since I don't completely know your whole situation I don't know exactly what you may or may not need. I said you may not need the single mode, if all you were doing was connecting the switches together, I never said you don't need the single mode. I don't know what else you are doing, so I was trying to help save you unnecessary cost if possible. I am throwing things out there with the information I have, so lose that slight attitude.

You can get a single mode SC to LC adapter if the SC size is a concern.

Sorry, just getting frustrated through this process(and not limited to this one question) when I say "I need/want to do X" and people comment on why I dont need to do X and should do Y instead...and then the question never gets answered because the discussion goes in 99 different directions. Building a house is frustrating as hell when there are things I dont know about, yet trying to make decisions that cant easily be changed.

[Adrenaline_6]

Sorry, just getting frustrated through this process(and not limited to this one question) when I say "I need/want to do X" and people comment on why I dont need to do X and should do Y instead...and then the question never gets answered because the discussion goes in 99 different directions. Building a house is frustrating as hell when there are things I dont know about, yet trying to make decisions that cant easily be changed.

Ok, cool, well like I said, and you said, you might as well run more than 1 conduit since they are trenching already. If you aren't too worried about db loss on the multiple connections, and the SC connectors size are a concern, try the adapters.

Just throwing another thing out there. You might have already weighed this out, I don't know but the cost of the pre terminated cable vs pulling the unterminated cable and paying a structured cable company to come terminate the end for you might offset themselves and in the end give you more pairs for spare.

[rjacobs]

Ok, cool, well like I said, and you said, you might as well run more than 1 conduit since they are trenching already. If you aren't too worried about db loss on the multiple connections, and the SC connectors size are a concern, try the adapters.

Just throwing another thing out there. You might have already weighed this out, I don't know but the cost of the pre terminated cable vs pulling the unterminated cable and paying a structured cable company to come terminate the end for you might offset themselves and in the end give you more pairs for spare.

NOT in a trench... Running this in the walls... If I was trenching in conduit I would be trenching 3" conduit, maybe even 4"...

As far as pre-terminated, the cost isnt that much. Im seeing 30m of OM3, 6 fiber for like 40 bucks... thats no connectors. Pre-terminated is 65 for the same. Pre-terminated 4 fiber is like 45 bucks. A 2 strand is only 17 bucks... The OS2 simplex with SC APC for 30m is only 6 bucks...

So the cost is very cheap for pre-terminated. I cant imagine what somebody would charge to come out and do in essence 6 terminations... Im guessing easily 100 bucks, if not 200 bucks...

[pinzgauer]

I'll defer to you guys on the fiber, I know just enough to be dangerous.

What I do know is ATT locally runs fiber to the termination point of your choice on your structure for gigabit internet. Multiple buddies have it. So I'm surprised you'd be having to run fiber for that. Some terminate there and run cat 6 to the router.

I can get ATT gigabit, have considered it, but their TV options suck and it does not make sense to have internet from ATT and cable from xfinity. So I got a very good deal on Xfinity "Gigabit". Which is still darn fast (800-900 Mbit), but only approximates 1G, and that only down. (where ATT gig is the real deal and bidirectional)

[rjacobs]

I'll defer to you guys on the fiber, I know just enough to be dangerous.

What I do know is ATT locally runs fiber to the termination point of your choice on your structure for gigabit internet. Multiple buddies have it. So I'm surprised you'd be having to run fiber for that. Some terminate there and run cat 6 to the router.

AT&T fiber runs into the house now. The ONT box where the fiber converts to cat cable used to be installed outside, but as of ~2 years ago(from what I can read on the AT&T forums) the box is installed inside now and they run fiber all the way into the house and their ONT is now mounted inside where it converts to Cat cable to their router. Their fiber from the street to the service entrance demarc box, they terminate, but from the demarc box to the house is pre-terminated in 25, 50 or 75 foot lengths. They will, from what I have read, use your cable from the demarc box to their ONT as long as its the correct cable(OS2 with SC APC connections), so thats my plan.

The other thing I have found out about AT&T fiber is that you can eliminate their router from the system by using your router and spoofing it to "look" like the AT&T router. This can really increase your speeds from what I am reading. I need to do more research on that though.

[Adrenaline_6]

AT&T fiber runs into the house now. The ONT box where the fiber converts to cat cable used to be installed outside, but as of ~2 years ago(from what I can read on the AT&T forums) the box is installed inside now and they run fiber all the way into the house and their ONT is now mounted inside where it converts to Cat cable to their router. Their fiber from the street to the service entrance demarc box, they terminate, but from the demarc box to the house is pre-terminated in 25, 50 or 75 foot lengths. They will, from what I have read, use your cable from the demarc box to their ONT as long as its the correct cable(OS2 with SC APC connections), so thats my plan.

The other thing I have found out about AT&T fiber is that you can eliminate their router from the system by using your router and spoofing it to "look" like the AT&T router. This can really increase your speeds from what I am reading. I need to do more research on that though.

Now I see a little better at what you are trying to accomplish. I am guessing you really don't want their ONT in the location you are pulling the fiber from or you wouldn't be bothering with this. I guess preterminated isn't that pricey, the only downfall with preterminated is length. You are stuck with a preset length and have to coil up the excess somewhere. It is a good idea to have a small coil on both sides anyway for servicing anyway.

Are you putting the initial connection point from AT&T to your fiber outside the house in a splice box or LIU then going to your second location?

Whats the first switch for and where is that located?

I know, lots of questions, but I like to understand the whole scope, that way I can better understand the design and what it is accomplishing. I am a Sales Engineer for a commercial security company, so that's what I do. Not so much alarms anymore, that was in a past life, I design IP camera and access control systems from the ground up which includes connectivity of the devices to the network. I see your a pilot also...kudos. I graduated from ERAU in Daytona with an Aeronautical Science degree and got my multi, commercial, instrument ratings. I am not current anymore though, so it's just on paper now. Yup...wasted that education and money...lol.

If you don't want to explain everything that is cool man, I just have the type of mind that likes to see the whole picture and see all the cogs turning to better understand things and maximize design efficiency.

[rjacobs]

Pre-terminated cables at FS.com can be bought in any length you want. They make them to order and really arent any more expensive than "in stock" type, just take about a week to get. Once I know how long my run needs to be ill order cables.

I have a demarc box I bought for outside the house. AFL OPN-500. Its got a 6 position coupling piece. I have 2 SC-APC simplex couplers and 2 LC UPC duplex couplers, and 2 more spare positions.

The AT&T fiber will run to their ONT then into their router(if I can figure out how to bypass their router I will) then into a firewall/router(either Unifi Security Gateway or the Security Gateway Pro4...OR the Ui Dream Machine Pro if its released in time), then to the switch. The Pro4 and the Dream Machine both have SFP so I can run SFP fiber from their to the switch. If I do the regular Security Gateway it will be Cat6 to the switch. The Unifi Cloudkey Gen2+ which has the NVR built in(again unless the Dream Machine is released prior to my purchasing things, it has NVR built in) will also be connected to the switch.

Switch inside the house will be a 16 port POE switch feeding 5 or 6 Ubiquiti AP's and probably 6 or 7 cameras. Then I will run SFP via OM3 with LC duplex connectors out to my shop when I build it next year to an 8 port POE switch that will run an AP and probably 3 cameras.

Still thinking through a rack mount NAS of some kind, I like what I see in the Synology stuff on the last page of this thread, but need to research that stuff more.

I will be stuffing everything in 9u Tripplite wall mount rack.

[Adrenaline_6]

Pre-terminated cables at FS.com can be bought in any length you want. They make them to order and really arent any more expensive than "in stock" type, just take about a week to get. Once I know how long my run needs to be ill order cables.

I have a demarc box I bought for outside the house. AFL OPN-500. Its got a 6 position coupling piece. I have 2 SC-APC simplex couplers and 2 LC UPC duplex couplers, and 2 more spare positions.

The AT&T fiber will run to their ONT then into their router(if I can figure out how to bypass their router I will) then into a firewall/router(either Unifi Security Gateway or the Security Gateway Pro4...OR the Ui Dream Machine Pro if its released in time), then to the switch. The Pro4 and the Dream Machine both have SFP so I can run SFP fiber from their to the switch. If I do the regular Security Gateway it will be Cat6 to the switch. The Unifi Cloudkey Gen2+ which has the NVR built in(again unless the Dream Machine is released prior to my purchasing things, it has NVR built in) will also be connected to the switch.

Switch inside the house will be a 16 port POE switch feeding 5 or 6 Ubiquiti AP's and probably 6 or 7 cameras. Then I will run SFP via OM3 with LC duplex connectors out to my shop when I build it next year to an 8 port POE switch that will run an AP and probably 3 cameras.

Still thinking through a rack mount NAS of some kind, I like what I see in the Synology stuff on the last page of this thread, but need to research that stuff more.

I will be stuffing everything in 9u Tripplite wall mount rack.

Awesome! The crappy thing about the AT&T router is you cannot bridge it. I bounce back between AT&T and Spectrum every year because they give better deals to new clients, so I play their stupid game. I am with Spectrum now, but the AT&T ONT is still hooked up near my router ready for next years inevitable switch off. You have to make one port on the AT&T router a DMZ zone which passes all traffic through it to your router. It's stupid and the AT&T bastards need to change that or provide just a modem like Spectrum does or allow an aftermarket modem to be used. Not sure about the spoofing part, since I am currently on the Spectrum plan this year, but will look into it when I have to switch again.

My buddy who is also a pilot (Fedex) looked at Synology since he already had one of their NAS for his media server and found that there are camera licensing costs past 2 I think? He hates expensive licensing so he skipped that option. You might not mind.

Is still am somehow missing what the MM fiber is doing at the Demarc location and what is it feeding. Also, can the premade connectors fit through the watertight connectors of the AFL OPN-500 at the demarc point? If they can do that, they will fit in the 1" conduit no problem.

Didn't you mention connecting 2 switches via fiber? Where is the second switch location? or is that the future shop you were talking about?

[rjacobs]

Awesome! The crappy thing about the AT&T router is you cannot bridge it. I bounce back between AT&T and Spectrum every year because they give better deals to new clients, so I play their stupid game. I am with Spectrum now, but the AT&T ONT is still hooked up near my router ready for next years inevitable switch off. You have to make one port on the AT&T router a DMZ zone which passes all traffic through it to your router. It's stupid and the AT&T bastards need to change that or provide just a modem like Spectrum does or allow an aftermarket modem to be used. Not sure about the spoofing part, since I am currently on the Spectrum plan this year, but will look into it when I have to switch again.

My buddy who is also a pilot (Fedex) looked at Synology since he already had one of their NAS for his media server and found that there are camera licensing costs past 2 I think? He hates expensive licensing so he skipped that option. You might not mind.

Is still am somehow missing what the MM fiber is doing at the Demarc location and what is it feeding. Also, can the premade connectors fit through the watertight connectors of the AFL OPN-500 at the demarc point? If they can do that, they will fit in the 1" conduit no problem.

Didn't you mention connecting 2 switches via fiber? Where is the second switch location? or is that the future shop you were talking about?

From what I am understanding to spoof the AT&T router/wireless you hook everything up with the AT&T router, get online, then there are a bunch of settings you have to pull off of it, you then program your router to match those settings and then put your router in place of the AT&T router, without powering anything down. If you lose power you have to hook the AT&T router back up and start over because the AT&T router is what does the initial handshake with the AT&T servers. I read that AT&T can force a "hand shake", but rarely ever do. Worse case is you go offline and have to go through the process again.

As far as the Synology, im just looking at their dual HD 1U rack mount setup to use as an NAS. The Ubiquiti cameras have their own NVR.

And yes the MM is to run between the two Ubiquiti switches via SFP adapters.


And this whole discussion became basically a moot point when the builder low voltage rep told me today they can do 1.5" conduit no problem...wish he had told me that last week when I asked about 1.5" conduit vs. the 1" .

[rjacobs]

speaking of IT issues...

The forum keeps double posting again...