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Thread: 1st rounds fliers...what causes them?

  1. #21
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    Load 6 and shoot the first round into the berm and a 5 round group. If you still have a flyer it's the shooter, if not it's probably a placebo effect and was always the shooter.

    Built my father (80+) an AR and he was convinced of his first round flyers. I asked him during one range outing if I could fire the first round, he said yes, but wasn't paying attention that I never fired a shot, just loading seating the mag and then getting up after others fired their guns. No flyer on that group from him. When I told him of my deception, he declared I had loaded the 1st round (although he did but forgot) and changed the gun. Until he started adding junk for more and more accuracy (why I'll never know) he was consistently 1 MOA @ 1-300 yards benched on bags with irons (fundamentals). After adding scope 1-4 Leupold, bipod, rear bag, cheek rest, flashlight and mount (why?), brass catcher he never shot better than 2-3 MOA as it all got in the way and hindered the fundamentals.

  2. #22
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    I always chamber using the bolt release if semi and mostly see the shift if:

    - I have fully cleaned and oiled the bore
    - First round on a (some makes worse than others) suppressor
    - Rifle is a rimfire, and shifting ammo makes (not sure why, but rimfires seem to be bad about this)

  3. #23
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    FWIW, I took an AMU course a few years back and they had done very comprehensive testing on this (had a fancy powerpoint and all). What was funny to me was their data showed a cold bore shift (varied by barrel/ammo/caliber/etc...) but many of their instructors still felt it was more likely to be shooter induced. So.... Who knows.

  4. #24
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    Cold shooter vs cold bore can easily be tested on a lead sled.

    Mount a gun on a lead sled, of you still get that flyer is probably not the shooter, of you donít then itís probably the shooter.

    Although Iíd be more interested in barrel length vs the ďflyersĒ distance from POA. (If subscribered to the cold bore line of thinking).


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

  5. #25
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    It's largely caused by the imbalance of GMO and Gluten in the shooter's diet. That and Global warming will easily explain the flyers.
    "You people have too much time on your hands." - scottryan

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by markm View Post
    It's largely caused by the imbalance of GMO and Gluten in the shooter's diet. That and Global warming will easily explain the flyers.
    It's Russian meddling

  7. #27
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    I have NOTORIOUS 4th and 5th round flyers. Immediately after I stack three shots in one hole. CHOKE CHOKE and choke. Iíll stop Breathing then yank the fk out of the trigger and open that baby up
    To 1.5 MOA.

    CLASSIC PB Flyers !

    Last week Mark shot a 3 shot 300WM group that barely opened up the first hole, I said you want to ? ď fk that Iím not ....Ē. LOL

    Itís an epedemic at our hide at times
    Last edited by Pappabear; 07-27-18 at 11:37.

  8. #28
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    I recently went down the rabbit hole chasing my first round flier. I observed the 1st Rd from every mag hitting a different spot than the rest of the group. Each type of ammo had a different flyer location, but for a type of ammo the flyer shift was consistent. On one test I fired 5 2 round strings, each string being a mag loaded with 2 RDS. The test produced 2 distinct 5 Rd groups on the target.

    I tore down the rifle to true the receiver, bed the barrel, and "float" the gas tube. Afterward it didn't disappear... Despite quite a few factory loads seeing dramatic improvements in group size.

    After a lot of experimentation I found the culprit: my 1st Gen 20rd pmags(the straight ones). They had been my go-to bench mags for a while. When I tried a new 30 rounder in my range bag the first round flier went away. Bought some newer 20rd curved PMAGS and no issue either.

    So, food for thought: if you see first round fliers when using the bolt release or charging handle, consider trying a different mag.

  9. #29
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    I am just shocked at the number of credible shooters that experience this. Me or Mark with all our guns and different ammo have never seen it with any consistency. Just wow

    And Iím not doubting anyone. Just wow

  10. #30
    Join Date
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    My experience has not been with 1st, but LAST rd. fliers, in an autoloader/AR.
    Fairly regularly when shooting to bolt lock I’ll have a rd. substantially out of the group.
    I read a Seekins article that tried to explain this as a barrel harmonics issue-that barrel doesn’t vibrate/flex the same when bolt doesn’t go forward.

    As far as 1st rd. fliers; as long as I charge the gun by dropping bolt with bolt release- I’ve not experienced this issue.

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