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Thread: 1st rounds fliers...what causes them?

  1. #11
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    All of my AR’s equipped with magnified optics also have two-stage triggers and all will throw the first round high if a chamber using the charging handle. If I load by releasing the BCG from lock-back, the first round is not thrown and the groups are even.

    I believe that releasing the bolt more closely mimics the cycling of the action after a fired round.
    Last edited by gunnerblue; 05-28-18 at 19:48.

  2. #12
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    ^^Agree with this.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by KUSA View Post
    It happens to me all the time also. Lowlight over Snipershide swears that there is no such thing as the cold bore causing a flyer but rather that it is the cold shooter.
    Agree with the load function. In Highpower, the rounds from a mag will shoot differently than those singly loaded of a mag with a sled follower. .

    The 'Cold shooter' is easily tested if you have two guns (hopefully the same) and have the shooter shoot that first and then go straight to the other cool gun. You could even pick and replace the gun for each shot to make it perfectly the same.

    Sound like you are not dealing with a clean and cold bore, but rather a dirty and 'cool' bore shot. The gun might not be 'hot' but is has been shot that day and not cleaned?

    I'd try the bolt release load and see what happens.
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  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by FromMyColdDeadHand View Post
    Agree with the load function. In Highpower, the rounds from a mag will shoot differently than those singly loaded of a mag with a sled follower. .

    The 'Cold shooter' is easily tested if you have two guns (hopefully the same) and have the shooter shoot that first and then go straight to the other cool gun. You could even pick and replace the gun for each shot to make it perfectly the same.

    Sound like you are not dealing with a clean and cold bore, but rather a dirty and 'cool' bore shot. The gun might not be 'hot' but is has been shot that day and not cleaned?

    I'd try the bolt release load and see what happens.
    Not dealing with a clean bore. Once I break a rifle in, I typically only clean when the groups starting noticeably exceeding the baseline of the given rifle. For example, if the rifle averages 1 MOA at 100 yards, I'll shoot groups again when I start missing easy 1.5 MOA targets.

    I've been releasing from bolt release since I built the rifle. I'm going to re-evaluate at 500 rounds and see if the tendency to have a flyer is diminished.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnerblue View Post
    All of my AR’s equipped with magnified optics also have two-stage triggers and all will throw the first round high if a chamber using the charging handle. If I load by releasing the BCG from lock-back, the first round is not thrown and the groups are even.

    I believe that releasing the bolt more closely mimics the cycling of the action after a fired round.
    Never considered this a possibility. I'll have to try it next time I'm at the range.

  6. #16
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    Cold bore like stated is a cold shooter.

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnerblue View Post
    All of my AR’s equipped with magnified optics also have two-stage triggers and all will throw the first round high if a chamber using the charging handle. If I load by releasing the BCG from lock-back, the first round is not thrown and the groups are even.

    I believe that releasing the bolt more closely mimics the cycling of the action after a fired round.
    I don't buy cold shooter. I do buy gaijin's , load via dropping the bolt vs easing it down on first round. Also, fouling can play a role, depending on what you want to do, we commonly fire 2 to 3 rounds on steel before we do groups on 223.

    We never do this on 308 or 300WM. Mark, back in the day, cleaned his 308 spotless every week and the first round would hit the BULLSEYE, then the rest of rounds would cluster around it. No cold bore shooter. It happened 50 times in the first years of our long range learning.

    Seems to be a small bore thang, maybe ? Or AR thang.

    PB
    Last edited by Pappabear; 07-07-18 at 15:23.
    "Air Force / Policeman / Fireman / Man of God / Friend of mine / R.I.P. Steve Lamy"

  8. #18
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    As my buddy continues to shoot his identically built rifle, he is seeing smaller groups. He is now of the mindset that's it's a cold shooter issue. We leapfrog on who is better at precision shooting, so I'm not unconvinced he is correct. I have been saving components to do another batch of higher end handloaded ammo, so I'll have to revisit this issue later. I tend to cycle between shooting issued equipment and better, personally owned gear.

  9. #19
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    I tend to think it's more of a shooter issue than weapon system issue. If I bring several guns to the range and shoot a string with one gun then switch to a cold rifle my first shot flyers aren't nearly as pronounced I don't doubt for a second there are guns out there that do have POI shifting after the barrel warms from rounds fired but for me I thinks it's more a mental road block.

  10. #20
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    My 308 AR does this first round “flier” unless i drop the bolt from lock. If I cycle the CH to charge, I undoubtedly get fliers. I partially think my barrel has a flaw as I have a hard time keeping consistent groups with or without it being copper fouled. Looking to make another upper/barrel combo in 6.5CM for S&Gs.

    This phenomenon does not happen with my 5.56 SPR; 18” Rainier Ultra Match SPR profile, KAC lower, Colt upper, KAC FF (MK12) with AE break and collar.
    ETC (SW/AW), USN (1998-2008)
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