Page 1 of 19 12311 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 181

Thread: 9mm Subgun Viable for Home Defense?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    37
    Feedback Score
    0

    9mm Subgun Viable for Home Defense?

    Instead of comparing a 9mm Subgun to an SBR cambered in 556 in the role of home defense/room clearing, I'd like to know what you guys think in terms of using a suppressed Subgun in that role. More specifically, why or why it isn't viable for that role. I see a lot of people saying that a 9mm Subgun is nothing but a range toy and with the rising popularity, it's hard to imagine that since it reigned supreme for so long. Again, I'm specifically asking about a 9mm Subgun, not comparing it to a 556.

    Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    1,665
    Feedback Score
    0
    Viable? I mean, it'll get the job done. It just simply isn't going to be as effective as a true rifle caliber. A .38 snubbie is a viable home defense gun for the average person, but that doesn't mean that a Glock 17 with a WML isn't a better choice, which in turn is superseded by a suppressed PCC generally, which is going to be outmatched by a rifle.

    AFAIK, historically, the SMGs got the nod for CQB because they were more reliable the old short rifles; once the shorties got reliable enough, the SMGs got replaced.

    Quote Originally Posted by DocGKR
    1/4/14

    As many of the previous posts note, there are multiple factors that will play a role in determining which weapon might be the best choice for home defense.

    From a pure wound trauma standpoint on a shot against unarmored soft tissue, a close range hit from a 12 ga shotgun using buckshot will create more damage than any 5.56 mm projectile; it is for this reason that Dr. Fackler has expressed his preference for 12 ga buckshot over 5.56 mm for close range defensive use. Compared to pistol caliber weapons, virtually any shoulder fired carbine caliber weapon or 12 ga shotgun will prove superior from a wound ballistic standpoint. Keep in mind that over the past 20 years, the vast majority of the 5.56mm/.223 loads we tested have exhibited significantly less penetration than 9mm, .40 S&W, .45 ACP, and 12 ga. shotgun projectiles after first penetrating through interior walls. Stray 5.56mm/.223 bullets seem to offer a reduced risk of injuring innocent bystanders and an inherent reduced risk of civil litigation in situations where bullets miss their intended target and enter or exit structures, thus 5.56mm/.223 caliber weapons may be safer to use in CQB situations, home defense scenarios, and in crowded urban environments than handgun service caliber or 12 ga. weapons. Below are the wound profiles of unobstructed shots at 3 meters, comparing several weapons that might be used for home defense:


    Note that the M1 carbine, 16” barrel AR15, 18” barrel shotgun with a “youth” stock, and 16” barrel lever action carbine are all approximately the same length and offer the equivalent ease of maneuvering, so bickering about weapon size is a somewhat moot point when comparing weapons of this type. From an ergonomic and weapon manipulation standpoint, the AR15 is far superior to the other weapons, followed by the M1 carbine, and then distantly trailed by the shotgun and lever action carbine. Likewise, the AR15 is the most modular and allows the easiest mounting of various accessories. Unfortunately, AR15’s are also usually more expensive. In addition, in some locales, AR15’s are more highly regulated and/or feared than other less “scary” looking weapons; in those areas, an AR15’s “military” appearance may prejudice some LE officers who respond to a lethal force incident, as well as the DA and jury… If living in a state with asinine legal restrictions on firearms regulations or a liberal “weapon phobic” region, a PC, plain-jane appearing shoulder fired weapon that does not scare the metaphorical sheep might be prudent…

    In an indoors static defensive role against a single violent assailant who was advancing on me, a 12 ga. shotgun would be my first choice. However, if multiple criminals were assaulting me, if a precision shot was required, if the assailant was wearing body armor, in a time of domestic unrest and upheaval with potentially large crowds of hostile individuals roaming about, or in situations that would require movement outdoors, then I would far prefer a magazine fed shoulder fired weapon capable of greater range, faster reloading, and greater ammunition capacity than a shotgun. In addition, of the shoulder fired weapons commonly used for self-defense, shotguns are the most difficult to effectively employ and require the most training to properly use.

    Most citizens would do well to follow the lead of LE agencies in their locale and pick similar weapons to what LE feels is prudent and necessary for defensive use against the criminals in that jurisdiction. Often times these days that is 9 mm or .40 pistols with a 15-17 round magazines and AR15's with 30 rd magazines.

    Finally, there is the matter of weapon familiarity and training. In 20+ years of military and LE use, I have fired far more rounds of ammunition, had more training with, and greater experience using AR15 based rifles than any other type of shoulder fired weapon. And while I have also trained with and used other shoulder fired weapons including MP5’s, M14’s/M1A’s, shotguns, bolt guns, and the odd M1 "Garand" rifle, M1 carbine, and lever gun—baring legal restrictions, in a chaotic, stress filled situation, I would feel most comfortable and confident using an AR15 based weapon due to my previous training and experience.
    Last edited by Defaultmp3; 05-28-18 at 20:45.
    Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

    老僧三十年前未參禪時、見山是山、見水是水、及至後夾親見知識、有箇入處、見山不是山、見水不是水、而今得箇體歇處、依然見山秪是山、見水秪是水。

    https://www.instagram.com/defaultmp3/

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Eastern NC
    Posts
    8,713
    Feedback Score
    88 (100%)
    It could work, but there are things that could work better. I’ve considered it for my wife, because it could be lighter and shorter, but I’ve heard they still recoil about as much as an AR. My biggest consideration reviles around how quickly I (or she) could get rounds on target.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Sic semper tyrannis.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    3,913
    Feedback Score
    0
    I own multiple 5.56 rifles and 9mm PCC.

    A 5.56 rifle is what sits besides my bed. I do however carry a 9mm in a back pack for when I need a covert shoulder fired weapon.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    397
    Feedback Score
    4 (100%)
    Viable? Yes, certainly. A baseball is probably viable. I'm not quite sure why you'd phrase the question like that;if the whole point is viable defense, and if we know thing A is viable, but there's some question about the viability of thing B, then every point about B is essentially a comparison to A. No?

    Anyways, confusion aside, I wouldn't hesitate to use a PCC to defend my house.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    179
    Feedback Score
    0
    I built a 9mm just for this. Colt SMG mags. It eats every single HP load I've ever tried in it but it particularly likes the unicorn +P+ Ranger T. The only malfunction I've ever had on it was from Rem 115 JHP bulk from Walmart. It just refuses to run that stuff. If you use Colt pattern mags get the Maglula. Those springs are no joke.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Oh, Dah Nord Minnersoda.
    Posts
    1,342
    Feedback Score
    4 (100%)
    While this argument only has a small window of validity;

    Many people have discussed over penetration in urban environments.

    for example, short of bedrooms to keep in mind, our closest neighbors is through a set of thick woods on all sides of our property. The likelihood of penetrating an exterior wall and hitting someone else's property is severely low.

    A 5.56 is a stronger round, efficient, and has some known reliable expansion ammo.

    With that being said, if I lived in a townhouse, surrounded by people on all sides, a subgun would probably be more in my favor. It's still able and capable of punching through shite, but not as much as the 5.56.

    There are some arguements you could apply based on your environment. But arguments based on comparison of the two, as weapon systems? Nah, the Short AR will out beat it every time. Hell even a true supressed .300 Blk would be an amazing option in regards to SBR with a can.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    Posts
    286
    Feedback Score
    9 (100%)
    I keep short-barreled AR under the bed for me. The girlfriend has my CZ Scorpion under her side of the bed. The AR may be better but the Scorpion is better for her and that’s all I care about. A reliable and accurate 9mm carbine being utilized by someone properly trained on it is perfectly viable as a HD option.
    Last edited by Achilles11B; 05-29-18 at 16:02.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    1,193
    Feedback Score
    2 (100%)
    I think a 9MM carbine is a good option. I have a USGI M1 Carbine for that role, so never thought to get a PCC for HD. I mean, many people use 9MM, .45 and other caliber pistols for HD, so a PCC would be fine for most people's needs. It is always good to have an AR back up within reach though.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    21,836
    Feedback Score
    5 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by HeruMew View Post
    While this argument only has a small window of validity;

    Many people have discussed over penetration in urban environments.
    You realize the 9mm more likely to over penetrate than the 5.56 yes? Seems counter intuitive, but one should not choose 9mm for that reason.

    https://www.tactical-life.com/exclusives/9mm-vs-223/
    - Will

    General Performance/Fitness Advice for all

    www.BrinkZone.com

    LE/Mil specific info:

    https://brinkzone.com/category/swatleomilitary/

    “Those who do not view armed self defense as a basic human right, ignore the mass graves of those who died on their knees at the hands of tyrants.”

Page 1 of 19 12311 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •