9mm Subgun Viable for Home Defense?

[usmcvet]

How are you guys securing carbines with toddlers/kids running around? As much as I would like to keep a long gun handy I have not figured out a reasonable method to make it happen. The smallest footprint I have would be a suppressed MP5K with a folding brace but even then it would not be bedside.

I don't care a hoot if I lose a 2-stamp SBR or a MP5 clone during a HD situation. Being safe and stopping an attack is priority 1. Saving hearing is number 2.

I have this under my bed.





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[Nanuk]

How does that in any way change that PCCs often have more recoil than their carbine counter parts? It's simply the nature of the beast, given how many PCCs are blowback guns. This is why the MPX dominates the PCC realm in USPSA, as it's not blowback like the various AR-types and the CZ Evo.

CMMG makes a delayed rotary locking bolt AR Pistol in 9mm. I built a 40 AR Pistol and used this buffer system.

https://taccom3g.com/product/taccom-...buffer-system/

It makes all the difference in the world.

[indianalex01]

I don't have a "her" to train. I was making a comment. My Lady is a Marine Corps Combat Veteran. I did buy her a midlengh BCM and G19. She shoots very well.





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Good to you have Marine wife. Semper Fi

[Dan_B]

To each his or her own. My personal opinion is that whatever firearm you train with and are able to shoot very well under stress should work for home defense. I generally prefer one of my AR-15s because that’s the one I have the most experience with and shoot best. One is still in the bedroom closet for ‘just in case’ comfort. No kids at home. However, a few months ago I switched to a Zenith MKE manufactured Z-5RS 9mm semi. After few hundred FMJ rounds I found I really liked the gun but really hated the God awful the trigger. I replaced the terrible trigger with one made in the USA, added a part from HK Pro that let me add a white light, and Burris FastFire3 sight. Next range visit, few more hundred rounds, and everything worked well together. Cleaning was less fun...

.After enough shooting, I found it to be reliable and accurate. Cleaning became easier too. I tested all sorts of self defense ammo, and I found it liked Hornady’s Critical Duty 135gr the best, so that’s what it is loaded with. My wife is happy with her SIG P229. I wasn’t able to convince her to send more than a few rounds down range. I learned not to be pushy and she’s very good with her SIG, so that was that. Back to the clone, given how short it is, it is much easier to work with inside our home. Much easier to slice and navigate the several corners than with my suppressed HK AR. It did take some practice time to do it well. So, as much as I appreciate my AR as a great fighting tool, the 9mm sub gun is now my home work gun, and the longer suppressed AR is what I’ll use *if* I really need to go outside (our land; rural area).

Final point: if I am completely surprised, and only have a few seconds to react, my bedside fallback is a Baer .45 1911.

I hope I never have to use any of them, but they are all ready to go just in case.
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[indianalex01]

In regards to the 5.56 indoors in your home, it isn't going to make someone any deader compared to multiple center mast hits with a pistol calibered carbine. Dead is dead. You wouldn't think that if you were on the street and dumped 3 or 4 rounds into someone's chest cavity with your pistol.

Of course a 5.56 has better terminal ballistics. So does a .308 or even better a .338 Lapua Magnum compared to a 5.56. But at some point you can't make someone deader.

No matter who he or she is that comes into your home, unless they are wearing armor, any PCC or pistol in and reasonable caliber will take someone down. You aren't going to just take one shot. Especially from a low recoil weapon that stays on target.

A rifle may not always be ideal in confined spaces due to flash and concussion. Try firing a rifle round indoors without hearing protection. It's rattling. Although still loud as hell, a PCC is nowhere near as rattling and because of this it's a go to for many. Entry units that use the 5.56 do so with combination hearing protection and coms.

Your post is flawed. You say a hit from a 5.56 isn’t going to make someone deader the multiple chest hits from a PCC. 1st, why only one hit from 556 but multiple chest shots from PCC??? 2nd flaw is you aren’t always going to get “multiple chest shots”. Pistol calibers suck in comparison to a rifle round. I have both. Just don’t try to sell that a PCC is as good as rifle caliber carbine. It’s not. Many 223 rounds have low flash propellant now days. You aren’t going to get the perfect shot. An arm, leg or gut shot from a 223/556 will be way more devastating then a pistol round. No more posting flawed Scenarios to justify your stance.

I actually love PCC’s have 3 of them. I use them for home defense. I just can’t stand when people talk of a Scenario that put the cards in their favor to justify their gun.

[Wake27]

Your post is flawed. You say a hit from a 5.56 isn’t going to make someone deader the multiple chest hits from a PCC. 1st, why only one hit from 556 but multiple chest shots from PCC??? 2nd flaw is you aren’t always going to get “multiple chest shots”. Pistol calibers suck in comparison to a rifle round. I have both. Just don’t try to sell that a PCC is as good as rifle caliber carbine. It’s not. Many 223 rounds have low flash propellant now days. You aren’t going to get the perfect shot. An arm, leg or gut shot from a 223/556 will be way more devastating then a pistol round. No more posting flawed Scenarios to justify your stance.

I actually love PCC’s have 3 of them. I use them for home defense. I just can’t stand when people talk of a Scenario that put the cards in their favor to justify their gun.

He was banned.

[indianalex01]

He was banned.

Why did he get banned?

[Nanuk]

Your post is flawed. You say a hit from a 5.56 isn’t going to make someone deader the multiple chest hits from a PCC. 1st, why only one hit from 556 but multiple chest shots from PCC??? 2nd flaw is you aren’t always going to get “multiple chest shots”. Pistol calibers suck in comparison to a rifle round. I have both. Just don’t try to sell that a PCC is as good as rifle caliber carbine. It’s not. Many 223 rounds have low flash propellant now days. You aren’t going to get the perfect shot. An arm, leg or gut shot from a 223/556 will be way more devastating then a pistol round. No more posting flawed Scenarios to justify your stance.

I actually love PCC’s have 3 of them. I use them for home defense. I just can’t stand when people talk of a Scenario that put the cards in their favor to justify their gun.

Depends. Pistol calibers in longer barrels do as well or better than than rifle calibers in short barrels. No cherry picking allowed, if you use the best ammo for both. Case in point; My 40 S&W AR with an 8.5" BBL and 155 grn HST's will out perform a 5.56 64 grain soft point when fired from a 7.5" or 10.5" BBL. If you REALLY want to see what PCC's do look at ballistics for Magnum lever guns.

Once you get into real rifles the argument becomes moot. But to discount 600-700 FPE is intellectually lazy.

Low flash? How about NO flash, that is what you get from a PCC properly configured.

IMG_20180822_220048.jpg

[1168]

My 40 S&W AR with an 8.5" BBL and 155 grn HST's will out perform a 5.56 64 grain soft point when fired from a 7.5" or 10.5" BBL.

Are you comparing .40 vs 5.56 from a 10.5” barrel in performance? I’ll have two of whatever you’re drinking today.

[WillBrink]

Depends. Pistol calibers in longer barrels do as well or better than than rifle calibers in short barrels. No cherry picking allowed, if you use the best ammo for both. Case in point; My 40 S&W AR with an 8.5" BBL and 155 grn HST's will out perform a 5.56 64 grain soft point when fired from a 7.5" or 10.5" BBL. If you REALLY want to see what PCC's do look at ballistics for Magnum lever guns.

Once you get into real rifles the argument becomes moot. But to discount 600-700 FPE is intellectually lazy.

Low flash? How about NO flash, that is what you get from a PCC properly configured.

Source?