Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 12

Thread: Inconsistencies using XL650 and Little Crow WFT

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    539
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)

    Inconsistencies using XL650 and Little Crow WFT

    Hi everyone!

    So I recently bought 2,000 Lake City once-fired brass from Brass Bombers. The brass comes cleaned, decapped, and the primer pockets have been swaged. All the reloader needs to do is size, trim, and load.

    Well, I thought I’d make short work of it all by sizing on my XL650. I used an RCBS Short Base FL sizing die from their AR die set. The sized cases were all within the goldilocks zone of the Lyman case gauge (which I realize is only a qualitative measurement), so I thought everything was peachy. Problems arose, however, when my dad attempted to trim this brass using the Little Crow WFT. Of the first 6 cases (5 LC12 & 1 LC08) case lengths range from 1.752" to 1.758".

    I’m confident that he knows how to use the WFT; he’s used it to trim thousands of cases to +/- .002” before, but those were of the same headstamp (LC16) and were all sized on a single stage press.

    I’m not sure what is causing the inconsistency, so I thought you guys & gals could point me in the right direction. Is it an inherent inconsistency in the XL650? The shellplate is about as tight as it can be without getting resistance from the bolt. The die was screwed in and secured tightly with a Hornady lock ring. Cases were lubed with DCL.

    I really don’t want to trim 2k brass on a Forster hand trimmer guys...

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    179
    Feedback Score
    0
    Did you lube the inside of the necks? I've had issues in the past with pulling the shoulder back out. That could be your inconsistency. My fix was to use a Dillon sizing die, it has a carbide expander ball and has very short engagement with the neck. Totally solved my issue. You might try pulling your decapping rod completely out since they are decapped and see what happens. If you are not loading precision loads and use boat tail bullets there's really no need to expand it back out anyway.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Black Hills, South Dakota
    Posts
    4,658
    Feedback Score
    0
    Pull the de-capping rod out.

    If you need to de-cap use a universal de-capping die in station 1.

    You can expand the case neck on the final load toolhead with a Lyman M neck expander die.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    AZ
    Posts
    32,830
    Feedback Score
    14 (100%)
    If you have an expander ball in the die. That's probably the issue. Like Coal Dragger mentioned... I expand my necks on a separate die. I use the RCBS neck expander.

    On the other hand... if it's blasting ammo, who cares? Just run it. If you're making target ammo, it's worth the extra effort to neck expand separately.


    I do like to leave the decap pin in my sizing die so that there's always something ensuring that the flash hole isn't obstructed.
    Last edited by markm; 05-31-18 at 10:50.
    "What would a $2,000 Geissele Super Duty do that a $500 PSA door buster on Black Friday couldn't do?" - Stopsign32v

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    387
    Feedback Score
    0
    If you had a Hornady cartridge case headspace gauge you would know where and what is causing the variations.

    I spray my cases in a large zip lock with a home made lanolin and alcohol mix. And then work the bag with my hands to spread the lube and the majority of the inside of the necks get lubed. Meaning the lubed case necks do not pull hard and move the shoulders.


  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    27
    Feedback Score
    0
    I had the same problem when I started with the XL650 and on mine it was the shellplate not snugged down properly. I test it with my thumb every once in awhile and if I feel movement then I adjust it because it will come loose.
    This also caused a high primer problem

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Black Hills, South Dakota
    Posts
    4,658
    Feedback Score
    0
    Could be another culprit. I almost immediately ordered a new bushing for the shellplate and retention bolt that has roller bearings which I then applied grease to. Allows virtually all slop to be taken out and still allows free rotation of the shell plate. Well worth the money, and a very easy upgrade.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    AZ
    Posts
    32,830
    Feedback Score
    14 (100%)
    I'm not tracking on the shell plate. I mean... on my 550b, the shell plate simply pulls the case out of each die. The case is pushed in by the press. Play in the shell plate should have nothing to do with causing variances in brass.
    "What would a $2,000 Geissele Super Duty do that a $500 PSA door buster on Black Friday couldn't do?" - Stopsign32v

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    89
    Feedback Score
    6 (100%)
    I've had brass of the same manufacturer and lot come out different OALs if fired through different guns. Example would be FC brass from a pre-xtraxn OBR and post-xtraxn tOBR. If the trimmer was set up for the regular chamber OBR, the xtraxn brass came out a reliable .005-008 too long- probably stretching a little on the way back out as it sized a lot harder.

    As mentioned above, I find an M type die does a much better job than one that pulls the ball back through.

    Quote Originally Posted by markm View Post
    I'm not tracking on the shell plate. I mean... on my 550b, the shell plate simply pulls the case out of each die. The case is pushed in by the press. Play in the shell plate should have nothing to do with causing variances in brass.
    Should be the case; I trim with just a bit of cam-over contrary to dillion's instructions. It just barely bumps the shoulder far enough as is.

    Would like to get the lanolin/alcohol recipe from whoever is using it.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    387
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by MWAG19919 View Post
    Hi everyone!

    So I recently bought 2,000 Lake City once-fired brass from Brass Bombers. I used an RCBS Short Base FL sizing die from their AR die set. The sized cases were all within the goldilocks zone of the Lyman case gauge (which I realize is only a qualitative measurement), so I thought everything was peachy. Problems arose, however, when my dad attempted to trim this brass using the Little Crow WFT. Of the first 6 cases (5 LC12 & 1 LC08) case lengths range from 1.752" to 1.758".
    You bought 2,000 once fired Lake City 5.56 cases that were fired in a multitude of chambers, and you sized them and wonder why you have different case lengths when using a WFT trimmer.

    Answer, brass spring back after sizing, meaning the cases want to "spring back" to their fired size in the chamber they were fired in.

    NOTE, If you pause at the top of the ram stroke for 4 to 5 seconds it reduces brass spring back. Meaning pausing lets the brass know who is the boss and to stay put after sizing.

    I buy brass from Brass Bombers like you do that has been fired in rifles with different headspace settings. And since my brass is fired in three different AR15 rifles I still have the same problem. The only time you will have uniform length brass is if it is only fired in your rifle and is from the same lot and manufacture.

    Below the distance from the GO gauge to the Field gauge is approximately .010, and then some of the brass could have been fired in a M249 machine gun with even more headspace variations. Bottom line, as long as you are trimming off the shoulder location you will have variations in case length. But just remember if the cases were trimmed from the base of the case to the case mouth and you measured the shoulder location they would still be different headspace lengths.


Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •