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Thread: Where are the 14.5" M4 barrels with FSBs these days?

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by vicious_cb View Post
    . Thats why you can take less than reputable companies stuff and make them work. Your average user cant do that.
    I'm not quite sure that's his motivation for building with the parts he does...
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  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by redpillregret View Post
    Being issued by DoD isn’t exclusively what determines quality of a barrel, or a company. If you believe this to be the case, you are a fool. Despite what you may believe, there are numerous agencies and departments operating inside CONUS, contractors, and foreign militaries that also use firearms.

    If the litmus test is wide-spread DoD issue, then I suppose Remington rifles are the only good bolt/actions and, for instance, my AI, which failed to secure a contract, is shit. We must assume the Sig P320 is super magical body-slayer grade, while a G19X is a failure pistol. Eotech must also be great...and there’s no reason to go with a T2 Aimpoint. Perhaps we need to discuss the merits of M193 over commercial ammo such as the Gold Dot or TSX, or how Leupold Scopes are superior to Benders and Kahles and they will get you killed.

    The DoD is about logistics, not premium items.
    Kindof missed the point. This isn't about DoD "lowest bidder" mindset procurement. It's about mfgs innovating, things like the soccom barrel, etc. (Though even the big procurement is maybe not as bad as you are depicting)

    Yep, so maybe Colt did not invent the AR, but they sure developed it. Same for HK roller locks. Sig DAs before they jumped the shark. LMT and KAC each made huge contributions to the knowledge base and premier weapons. And yes, even DD innovated with their rails early on. Steyr, FN, Walther, IMI, even Enfield.

    Different class of mfgs than better than average clone mfgs. Yes, maybe some innovations there (kmr, etc). But not to the same degree and did not stick.

  3. #93
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    Where are the 14.5" M4 barrels with FSBs these days?

    Quote Originally Posted by pinzgauer View Post
    Kindof missed the point. This isn't about DoD "lowest bidder" mindset procurement. It's about mfgs innovating, things like the soccom barrel, etc. (Though even the big procurement is maybe not as bad as you are depicting)

    Yep, so maybe Colt did not invent the AR, but they sure developed it. Same for HK roller locks. Sig DAs before they jumped the shark. LMT and KAC each made huge contributions to the knowledge base and premier weapons. And yes, even DD innovated with their rails early on. Steyr, FN, Walther, IMI, even Enfield.

    Different class of mfgs than better than average clone mfgs. Yes, maybe some innovations there (kmr, etc). But not to the same degree and did not stick.
    I never mentioned lowest bidder. DoD adoption (or lack thereof) does not solely determine duty-grade. Innovation, since you’re stuck on it, does not determine duty grade.

    The SOCOM is hardly revolutionary, or innovative, really. Colt was asked to solve a specific problem; and they were told how to do it. It’s ironic ANYBODY crediting Colt with much innovation at all in the past twenty years. Sure, they have solved some logistical issues, and have nearly run themselves out of business.

    What has Colt done? Failed monolithic uppers, failed piston uppers, and lagged behind on free-float rails and mid-length systems? Let’s talk about their poor attempt at a .308 rifle....Now they put out Magpul furniture. Wow, color me impressed with the innovation! Oh boy let us not forget their competition series!

    Colt has the same relationship with the 1911 as the M4. I suppose somebody should tell those dudes killing guys worn in-house built 1911s they weren’t duty-grade.

    I don’t believe for a second your perception of innovation=duty grade.

    How about BCM’s work on 14.5” mid-length systems (which I believe Crane was exploring the benefits of over the SOCOM barrels), charge handles? What about their new barrel contours? Are those innovations? Or clones?

    I own several Colts and considered them a “go-to” brand for years. I’ve owned eight Colt carbines. While they are of good quality, their performance is no better than many manufacturers.


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    Last edited by redpillregret; 06-19-18 at 18:59.

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinzgauer View Post
    I read the hobby grade as "anything but mfgs who sell to major militaries in quantities other than for evaluation".

    I'd never equate BCM with PSA. I'm not a hater, but not a fanboy. Don't totally buy into the "meets the TDP", when the TDP is proprietary. I give them credit for trying to meet what is known of the TDP, but even FN and others is not allowed to use the TDP proprietary info in their commercial offerings. So if they legally had it, they could not use it. If they somehow have an old TDP, or even a current copy, they should not be talking about using it as it's not their proprietary info. ("proprietary", intellectual property, remember). That unless Colt gave them permission to use it, unlikely.
    I don’t believe the TDP works that way. It’s not a patent. If someone has the info I don’t think there’s anything stopping them from using it. If FN can’t use it it’s because they’re prohibited by contract. Even if it was a patent, it would have expired long ago.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by redpillregret View Post
    The SOCOM is hardly revolutionary, or innovative, really. Colt was asked to solve a specific problem; and they were told how to do it. It’s ironic ANYBODY crediting Colt with much innovation at all in the past twenty years. Sure, they have solved some logistical issues, and have nearly run themselves out of business.

    What has Colt done? Failed monolithic uppers, failed piston uppers, and lagged behind on free-float rails and mid-length systems? Let’s talk about their poor attempt at a .308 rifle....Now they put out Magpul furniture. Wow, color me impressed with the innovation! Oh boy let us not forget their competition series!
    You seemed to have missed several points. I was referring to companies like LMT and KAC who made material design improvements that have influenced or directly incorporated into current generation weapons, with good reason.

    I gave credit to bcm for the kmr, and I use gunfighter ch's, but don't really consider it a huge breakthrough, as it was just evolutionary improvement of the badger /tac-latch stuff. Not sure I buy that they were first with mid-lengths, though they certainly did champion it.

    I still say, there is a big difference from the bcm/noveske/larue/LBC companies and Colt/FN/HK/LMT/KAC/Walther/imi.

  6. #96
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    Where are the 14.5" M4 barrels with FSBs these days?

    I didn’t say they invented the mid-length, but they developed the 14.5” mid-lengths info what we have today...which is, according to Crane, a big deal.

    I don’t give them credit for keymod, as it’s a dying system and was stolen from another company that beat them to it by a few years.

    I believe Colt also made evolutionary changes, having not designed the AR and responded to DoD demands.

    I for one don’t feel under-gunned with my Colt or my BCM.


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    Last edited by redpillregret; 06-19-18 at 20:01.

  7. #97
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    This is going to piss a lot of people off, but I’ll say it- It’s just not that hard to build an AR that I would walk through an Iraqi doorway with. It’s 2018. The TDP isn’t goddamn magic. Has anyone heard of reverse engineering? The AR15, like the 1911, is not complicated. You don’t need to pay an arm and a leg to get one thats worthy of clearing your way from your mom’s basement to the kitchen.

    I served, overseas, with an MOS that primarily involved kicking doors in. The only weapon systems I truly liked were the M24 and the 240B. The M9 was alright as well. All of my AR’s were hit or miss and they were all Colt. The 110 made by Jesus, I mean KAC, was a damn nightmare to try and shoot consistently well at distance. Who makes it matters significantly less than people think. I have two BCM’s, and neither blow my doors off. The two times I’ve called them I’ve been less than impressed with the attitude on the other end of the phone.

    I would love to run and gun, swing a kettlebell and shoot an at unknown distance with half of the people on here spending their entire days arguing about the damn TDP. I’ve actually invited one of the loudest mouths on here to do so and never heard back. Shoot more, write less. A properly staked bolt carrier won’t matter nearly as much as a sub 8 minute mile when you need it.
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  8. #98
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    ^^^^^^^^ TLDR - It's the Indian, not the arrow.

    Did you mean - The AR15, UNlike the 1911, is not complicated.
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  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by docsherm View Post
    Are you bacing this off of actual real experiencs or was it from what the poeple on the internet have told you?
    In my sample-of-one expirience, yes, my BCM upper receiver group is superior to my PSA upper receiver group.

    That is irrelevant to the OP, neither BCM's or PSA's site shows any 14.5" M4 barrels with FSB.

    Andy
    Last edited by AndyLate; 06-20-18 at 09:40.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by CPM View Post

    I would love to run and gun, swing a kettlebell and shoot an at unknown distance with half of the people on here spending their entire days arguing about the damn TDP. I’ve actually invited one of the loudest mouths on here to do so and never heard back. Shoot more, write less. A properly staked bolt carrier won’t matter nearly as much as a sub 8 minute mile when you need it.
    You mean the guy who is arguably one of the top trigger pullers on this forum?




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