John McCain and the Bullies at the IRS.

[SteyrAUG]

My only correction is Everyone breaks. Time and resources = everyone eventually breaks.

Now if he got shot down and ran to the nearest VC and started singing that’s one thing. If he held out a while and eventually gave up info; it is what it is. If his “superiors” didn’t take into account what kind of info he could divulge and change SOP that’s on them IMO.

No idea about the factuality MEME above. Not sure that USN pilots know shit about operating Soviet AA weapons, so it’s unlikely that he trained VC personnel. Info he bled may have changed their SOP, but that’s about it.

Plenty of reasons to believe that he is a POS political sell out. Focus on those and if you’re in AZ make sure to not elect another like him

The one thing that does it for me with McCain is there was a deal in place and he could have left, he chose not to take the deal because "everyone wasn't going home." So whatever he did past or present, he demonstrated a moment of integrity that few could match. And for that alone, he gets carte blanche regarding his time in captivity.

Sadly, he's chosen to squander just about ever ounce of respect and integrity that he earned at a tremendously high personal cost. I don't understand it, maybe it's a kind of stockholm syndrome where he is no longer capable of making objective decisions. Not even sure I care anymore. As a politician he has now done more harm than good and he should retire from office immediately.

[Averageman]

The one thing that does it for me with McCain is there was a deal in place and he could have left, he chose not to take the deal because "everyone wasn't going home." So whatever he did past or present, he demonstrated a moment of integrity that few could match. And for that alone, he gets carte blanche regarding his time in captivity.

Any future McCain might have had, either in the Navy or in Politics was totally dependent upon him NOT taking that early release.
He never would have had a future had the "Prince" come home early and left his fellow Sailors to rot.

He would likely be some unknown car wash owner in Bisbee Arizona rather than have had the political career he managed to pull off.

[SteyrAUG]

Any future McCain might have had, either in the Navy or in Politics was totally dependent upon him NOT taking that early release.
He never would have had a future had the "Prince" come home early and left his fellow Sailors to rot.

He would likely be some unknown car wash owner in Bisbee Arizona rather than have had the political career he managed to pull off.

Perhaps, but again at the time he honestly didn't know if they'd actually kill him or not. He certainly wouldn't have been the first POW the Vietnamese executed so I have to think "political considerations" weren't his priority at the time. We can be cynical with our assumptions, but we can't be certain with our assumptions so as I would with any other POW I give McCain the benefit of the doubt lacking any certain evidence to the contrary.

And more importantly, there is so much more post war stuff that he can be criticized for that it is probably at best "poor form" to make unproven allegations about his actions while a POW. The guy was one of the Keating Five for petes sake, how he is still in office after being linked directly to the S&L scandal is beyond me.

[lowprone]

Because Arizona voters are an enigma !

[SteveS]

He has....
Long ago gone in the red for any status his vet/POW status standing bought him in my eyes.

My cousin was a pow and a vet and that didn't buy him anything McCain is a pos always was, always will be. Vet, pow or whatever a pos is a pos..

[Averageman]

My cousin was a pow and a vet and that didn't buy him anything McCain is a pos always was, always will be. Vet, pow or whatever a pos is a pos..

So, how many enlisted guys were captured and lived through being POW's?
Once the NVA got the details from McCain about routes, patterns, altitudes etc, how many more died waiting for CAS that never arrived?
Life isn't fair and being a POW would certainly suck, but you're right McCain had done a lot of dirty stuff during his tenure as a Representative of the people of Arizona.
I'm just willing to bet that pattern of backstabbing, inept self-service started long before he was ever shot down.

[SteyrAUG]

So, how many enlisted guys were captured and lived through being POW's?
Once the NVA got the details from McCain about routes, patterns, altitudes etc, how many more died waiting for CAS that never arrived?
Life isn't fair and being a POW would certainly suck, but you're right McCain had done a lot of dirty stuff during his tenure as a Representative of the people of Arizona.
I'm just willing to bet that pattern of backstabbing, inept self-service started long before he was ever shot down.

How much of that do we know for a fact? Because if we don't know for sure, we shouldn't go down that road as it starts from a position of basic disrespect for a POW. I don't give a damn about McCain personally, but I have a base level of respect for ALL POWs as a general rule and I need reliable confirmation before I start flipping them shit.

So far off the top of my head the only one I can think of is Bergdahl and even his status as an actual POW is in doubt.

[TAZ]

How much of that do we know for a fact? Because if we don't know for sure, we shouldn't go down that road as it starts from a position of basic disrespect for a POW. I don't give a damn about McCain personally, but I have a base level of respect for ALL POWs as a general rule and I need reliable confirmation before I start flipping them shit.

So far off the top of my head the only one I can think of is Bergdahl and even his status as an actual POW is in doubt.

Bergdahl, by all accounts was/is a deserter. Not the same as a POW IMO and not deserving of anything other than CM and time in jail.

I’m with you on the rest. Even if McCain was the absolute worst soldier he was still a soldier. AFAWK he didn’t purposely crash/land his aircraft and walk over to the VC. So I’ll give him respect for serving and spending time as a POW. If his chain of command didn’t adjust SOP after having pilots captured that’s on them, not the men being tortured. It is entirely possible that the VC pieced together info from numerous soldiers telling little bits (thinking they were useless). Until I get facts that he did bad things that is.

However, that is NOT an excuse for his actions as a political creature. He is a POS as a senator.