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Thread: Pistol shooting posture

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by J-Dub View Post
    I would say, if it works, it works. I just took a course from an extremely credible instructor that kinda echoed the sentiment from above. Draw, Grip, sight alignment, and trigger control are king. I kinda agree. Does that mean experimenting shooting behind cover/concealment, on stairs, from a vehicle is wrong? No. But if your grip is ****ed up it might not matter.
    Truthful.

    It is hard to get multiple hits without a good grip, proper sight alignment, trigger control annnnnnd a good stance. You can say some elements may be more important than others, but that isn't to say all are not important.

    You'll notice that I left draw out of the list required to get multiple hits. Is the draw important? Yes it is, but even the best draw will lose to an already drawn weapon. So more important may actually be being situationally aware so that you draw in advance.

    To me equally important to a proper draw stroke is the impulse to move as you draw. That movement may just allow you to defeat the disadvantage of coming from slightly behind. Getting solid hits while moving is largely dependent on how much and how well you've practiced twisting and aligning your torso as you move, and how level your footwork allows you to keep the pistol.

    Those things come from paying attention to and working on stance.

    So I can't agree that stances is relatively unimportant.
    Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the President... - Theodore Roosevelt, Lincoln and Free Speech, Metropolitan Magazine, Volume 47, Number 6, May 1918.

    Every Communist must grasp the truth. Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun. Our principle is that the Party commands the gun, and the gun must never be allowed to command the Party Mao Zedong, 6 November, 1938 - speech to the Communist Patry of China's sixth Central Committee

  2. #12
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    Trigger control is the king daddy of pistol fundamentals, as it's been taught to me. Footing or stance is going to completely dependent on the situation you find yourself in during a gun fight. Maybe training drills involving proprioception are important, so you intuitively know how to move and gain proper footing.

    Who knows...just what I've been taught.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by J-Dub View Post
    Trigger control is the king daddy of pistol fundamentals, as it's been taught to me. Footing or stance is going to completely dependent on the situation you find yourself in during a gun fight. Maybe training drills involving proprioception are important, so you intuitively know how to move and gain proper footing.

    Who knows...just what I've been taught.
    I have to agree with your opening comment concerning trigger control. Although we train, rapidly acquiring a perfect shooting position and perfect sight alignment under stress is not always possible. You take what you can get, then manipulate the trigger consistently in a controlled fashion.

    That being said, I was taught that the shoulders, knees and toes should be in vertical alignment for stability when shooting a handgun from a stationary position. The knees and toes should move parallel to the sight plane when shooting on the move. Both positions may make it appear the shooter is slightly "hunched", but not hunched to the point that it applies tension to the nerves and arteries running through the neck.
    Train 2 Win

  4. #14
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    This is about as bad as it gets.
    I tend to start more upright, and hunker down during longer strings(gets more hunched as i shoot.)
    I think its a subconscious thing i just picked up on, maybe im trying to steady myself?
    I first noticed it while running through a texas star.

    Anyways, back on topic, if I keep myself more upright, are there performance gains to be had?
    *Please ignore grip, trigger press, and sights. I know they are more important, this is not a thread about those.

    Last edited by MegademiC; 06-28-18 at 18:19.

  5. #15
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    If you can see what is above, below and to the left and right without moving your head, head position should be acceptable. If you can maintain good sign alignment and manage recoil while both shooting stationary and shooting on the move, body position is acceptable. Body position will vary based on build, mobility and what is comfortable while effectively manipulating a firearm.
    Train 2 Win

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by 100 View Post
    Back in my LEO academy days the instructors stress to use the Isosceles stance due to the fact that you are wearing body armor and you want your body armor to offer you the best protection, weaver stance works well to but depending on the scenario and intended purpose. Personally, I have never heard of the "Chapman" stance... but I'm intrigued to know more about it... Learning is always a never ending process.
    Chapman is basically a Weaver Stance with the shooting arm straight and the support arm bent ala Weaver. There is a tendency for some shooters to wing the support elbow out, the elbow should be down.

    I think Isosceles is easier for most new shooters to grasp. Plus, there has been an evolution, if you would, in how we grip the auto-pistol. thanks to people way smarter than I.

    In what state did you got to academy, if you don't mind me asking.
    Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the President... - Theodore Roosevelt, Lincoln and Free Speech, Metropolitan Magazine, Volume 47, Number 6, May 1918.

    Every Communist must grasp the truth. Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun. Our principle is that the Party commands the gun, and the gun must never be allowed to command the Party Mao Zedong, 6 November, 1938 - speech to the Communist Patry of China's sixth Central Committee

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by 100 View Post
    Back in my LEO academy days the instructors stress to use the Isosceles stance due to the fact that you are wearing body armor and you want your body armor to offer you the best protection
    I was told that same nonsense as well. Such statements lack articulate facts of prior encounters which would support range instructor pet theories like these. Nothing against the Isosceles stance, I just hate that BS reason.

  8. #18
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    I believe people ahould use what works for them, tested through rigerous courses of fire over a period of time.
    Also, look what pros do, and emulate them. Hence this thread.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by bp7178 View Post
    I was told that same nonsense as well. Such statements lack articulate facts of prior encounters which would support range instructor pet theories like these. Nothing against the Isosceles stance, I just hate that BS reason.
    Well, maybe if you studied the subject you could find data to support your 'nonsense' conjecture.

    The ballistic vest and improvements to the EMS/trauma care system are the two main reasons that law enforcement officers killed numbers are as low as they are. Police officers still get dispatched to the same stuff they did decades ago, and if you've read the summaries of those incident, they are still making the same tactical errors that they did decades ago.

    If you look at the LEOKA stats since vests became a common wear item, you'd probably find that, oh, over a third of the officers killed by shots to the torso while wearing vests were killed by shoots that entered through the armhole or shoulder area of the vest, or between the side panels of the vest. If you want, I could send you the handouts on such trends that I updated each year. Or you could look at the 2017 LEOKA, Table 38 data. https://ucr.fbi.gov/leoka/2017/topic...s/table-38.xls

    Maybe your instructor was just parroting what he had heard, but some of us look at the numbers and try to develop tactics to counter the trends.
    Last edited by 26 Inf; 06-30-18 at 11:46. Reason: speeling/tense corrections
    Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the President... - Theodore Roosevelt, Lincoln and Free Speech, Metropolitan Magazine, Volume 47, Number 6, May 1918.

    Every Communist must grasp the truth. Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun. Our principle is that the Party commands the gun, and the gun must never be allowed to command the Party Mao Zedong, 6 November, 1938 - speech to the Communist Patry of China's sixth Central Committee

  10. #20
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    Your argument is exactly the reason why I have trouble taking anything a firearms instructor says with more than a grain of salt.

    The chart makes zero mention of the positional relationship between the shooter and victim. The importance of this as it pertains to the 'square up' argument is huge.

    The term confirmation bias comes to mind.

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