USAF war zone crews to get modified M4

[jackblack73]

If I was downed in enemy territory I’d take a rifle with zero additional weapons handling training over a pistol with training any day.

[RHINOWSO]

So what is being deleted from the seat pan to make room for a PDW? It's not like there's any spare room in those things.

Agreed, but other than a raft and Emergency O2, I really don't remember what was in it. Which means they can likely make room IMO.

And as much as I like the idea of better arming our aircrew, without the continuing training to go with a weapon, it's a waste of resources and space.

Also agreed - not sure what the USAF training program was, but in the Navy it was just the standard pistol qual course with the M11s, plus some extra ammo at th end if the AOs had it on hand. Every squadron / deployment has at least one ND on the ship, plus at least 1/2 the aircrew aren't really 'gun people' in the first place.

And as much as I like the idea of better arming our aircrew, without the continuing training to go with a weapon, it's a waste of resources and I fought with the Navy life support program office about them wanting to issue combat oriented knives vice survival knives for years. Now it seems they would rather issue folders than a fixed blade.

Yeah, my last issued one was a folder with the tip clipped off. Of course I carried my own knife.

And don't even get me started about carrying a pistol in a cross draw holster and NEVER training or qualifying in that configuration.

I wasn't overly concerned, as the primary intent for a holster / lanyard in Navy TacAir was retention throughout the ejection / parachute sequence. After that I'd likely have the pistol out at all times I could.

Sorry for the rant, y'all. Blame it on years of being the middle guy between the combatant commanders, good ideas fairies and the end users.

BTDT, got the T-shirt my friend. In the end warriors take matters into their own hands. I carried mostly my own first aid gear, combat knife, and extra magazines & ammo (I liked the SIG M11 and owned one to train with in my own time).

I would have taken a shorty AR in my seat pan any day flying over OEF / OIF / HOA, where the key was save the last round for yourself to avoid rape, torture, and video decapitation. But out of my last squadron of 30+, maybe 20% could have used one effectively (myself and 3 fellow gun nuts, plus a former 82nd guy).

[Vandal]

I was speaking to a buddy of mine who flies BUFFs about this today, they have the rifles on base and are working on getting them integrated. They removed the cold weather gear to make room for the rifle and mags. He would much rather have the rifle in his seat kit than the cold weather gear.

[arptsprt]

Seriously? Wow. That’s an eye opener to me. I guess I take for granted I’ve been around guns and shooting since as far back as I can remember.

I’m shocked that someone who went though all that training to fly a jet would be so incompetent when it comes to shoot a little carbine. Thanks for the perspective.

But out of my last squadron of 30+, maybe 20% could have used one effectively (myself and 3 fellow gun nuts, plus a former 82nd guy).

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[lysander]

I was speaking to a buddy of mine who flies BUFFs about this today, they have the rifles on base and are working on getting them integrated. They removed the cold weather gear to make room for the rifle and mags. He would much rather have the rifle in his seat kit than the cold weather gear.

That really all would depend on where you are most likely to run into trouble Five got out, two died of exposure. In some parts of Afghanistan, the midwinter temps get down to 15 degrees F. The kit should be tailored to the mission environment.

[DarkTemplars]

I'm sure the ground personnel would rather carry those around on base when in country also.

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[ralfabco]

I will wait for Space Command's side arm/PDW/Cricket.