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Thread: Duty to retreat laws

  1. #31
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    Dang, so the fight ended when they left the shop, so pursuing them is the 2nd fight. As stated prior, what if they went for a gun, how friging dumb


    Law of Self Defense: Self-Defense Claim Lost When Defender Becomes Aggressor

    Self-Defense Fails If Defender Becomes Aggressor
    The failure of Sumpter’s claim of self-defense is found in the element of innocence. How can that be, you might ask, given that it’s uncontested that the three aggressors attacked HIM. Because, as the media itself reports: “After being assaulted inside the coffee shop, Sumpter ran outside and stabbed one of the men.”

    That is a problem. In the eyes of the law what we have here is not a single fight in which Sumpter defended himself against the attack of the three aggressors. That fight did happen, but it also ended, when the aggressors left the coffee shop.

    When Sumpter then pursued them and stabbed them, he became the aggressor in a second fight. As the aggressor in this second fight he lost the element of innocence, and thus lost self-defense as a justification for his stabbing one of the aggressors.

    https://legalinsurrection.com/2018/0...mes-aggressor/

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by platoonDaddy View Post
    Dang, so the fight ended when they left the shop, so pursuing them is the 2nd fight. As stated prior, what if they went for a gun, how friging dumb


    Law of Self Defense: Self-Defense Claim Lost When Defender Becomes Aggressor

    Self-Defense Fails If Defender Becomes Aggressor
    The failure of Sumpter’s claim of self-defense is found in the element of innocence. How can that be, you might ask, given that it’s uncontested that the three aggressors attacked HIM. Because, as the media itself reports: “After being assaulted inside the coffee shop, Sumpter ran outside and stabbed one of the men.”

    That is a problem. In the eyes of the law what we have here is not a single fight in which Sumpter defended himself against the attack of the three aggressors. That fight did happen, but it also ended, when the aggressors left the coffee shop.

    When Sumpter then pursued them and stabbed them, he became the aggressor in a second fight. As the aggressor in this second fight he lost the element of innocence, and thus lost self-defense as a justification for his stabbing one of the aggressors.

    https://legalinsurrection.com/2018/0...mes-aggressor/
    I've seen this a couple times when the victim turned out to be a capable fighter / martial artist. I know one guy personally who had a knife pulled on him during an attempted robbery, actually got stabbed a couple times when he resisted but when he disarmed his attacker and started to really do some damage in return he was charged with "armed assault" because they considered his "black belt status" to constitute a weapon.

    He was convicted when the jury bought the line that "once the attacker was helpless, he had a DUTY to stop his actions" and the only good part is the judge decided he didn't need to go to jail. This was back in 1978 in Florida and the defense attorney trotted out some horseshit like "being a black belt is like having a gun."
    It's hard to be a ACLU hating, philosophically Libertarian, socially liberal, fiscally conservative, scientifically grounded, agnostic, porn admiring gun owner who believes in self determination.

    Chuck, we miss ya man.

    كافر

  3. #33
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    Exclamation

    Even if Republicans are in the minority in states like CT, I'd be filibustering just to change the name of the bill to - "Duty to BE a VICTIM" - so as to be on record, regarding the CONSEQUENCES of stupid, donkey, legislation!
    - Either you're part of the problem or you're part of the solution or you're just part of the landscape - Sam (Robert DeNiro) in, "Ronin" -

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteyrAUG View Post
    I've seen this a couple times when the victim turned out to be a capable fighter / martial artist. I know one guy personally who had a knife pulled on him during an attempted robbery, actually got stabbed a couple times when he resisted but when he disarmed his attacker and started to really do some damage in return he was charged with "armed assault" because they considered his "black belt status" to constitute a weapon.

    He was convicted when the jury bought the line that "once the attacker was helpless, he had a DUTY to stop his actions" and the only good part is the judge decided he didn't need to go to jail. This was back in 1978 in Florida and the defense attorney trotted out some horseshit like "being a black belt is like having a gun."
    Was this a criminal of a civil case? If it was a criminal case his attorney would be the defense attorney. If it was civil, it would be the defense attorney if he was the appellant and we were speaking of the plantiff's attorney.

    Either way, your friend's attorney had the right to object on foundation issues. Although I understand if his attorney didn't, because I've been involved in cases and had some weak attorneys let stuff get through. The judge tends to get irate if you say 'this is where you should object' to the prosecutor from the stand - in my experience that is all that has kept most officers from doing that very thing.
    "If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said a faster horse." - Henry Ford

    “You are responsible for your actions, but the world doesn’t turn around you, so it’s important that you find something bigger than yourself to work for, a way for you to make a difference.” - Drew Dix, MOH VN '68

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by 26 Inf View Post
    Was this a criminal of a civil case? If it was a criminal case his attorney would be the defense attorney. If it was civil, it would be the defense attorney if he was the appellant and we were speaking of the plantiff's attorney.

    Either way, your friend's attorney had the right to object on foundation issues. Although I understand if his attorney didn't, because I've been involved in cases and had some weak attorneys let stuff get through. The judge tends to get irate if you say 'this is where you should object' to the prosecutor from the stand - in my experience that is all that has kept most officers from doing that very thing.
    I think it was criminal because I remember him seriously worried about jail time, unless you can actually go to jail for a civil matter. But I could have sworn it was the defense attorney for the attacker, but it could have been a prosecutor. I wasn't actually there and got the info second hand from the individual in question.

    I remember the impression it made on me that if you take steps to protect yourself others will portray you as the "bad guy" even when you were the person who was attacked. Colored my views on the subject from a pretty early age.
    It's hard to be a ACLU hating, philosophically Libertarian, socially liberal, fiscally conservative, scientifically grounded, agnostic, porn admiring gun owner who believes in self determination.

    Chuck, we miss ya man.

    كافر

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