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Thread: "The Fighting Season" Weapon Loadout Analysis

  1. #11
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    It doesn’t matter how many fancy toys you give them if they aren’t trained to use them.




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by ggammell View Post
    Where’s the “Like” button?
    Ditto.

  3. #13
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    The Marines got it right with the M27 rifle.

  4. #14
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    IME finding the target(s) is the hardest part - even from the air - especially when the troops don't know where incoming fire is coming from.

    And when the bad guys are that far away, let CAS/AWT/IDF turn them into mincemeat - when the lawyers will let ya, that is.

    Its not supposed to be a fair fight.

  5. #15
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    I have relevant experience. In reference to lengthening barrels and adding KAC NT4’s... even on the end of a 14.5 in gun, those things get heavy and awkward. Especially in a mountainous region. Makes a M4 longer and heavier than a M16. On a range, its not an issue, but reallistically Soldiers spend most of their time NOT shooting, but they carry their rifles everywhere. Everytime you kneel to look at a map or something, muzzle in the dirt. Trying to get out of a vehicle, clunkety-clank. Long azz guns are a pain.

    If you can’t reach a target with a M4, thats what DMRs, snipers, mortars, air, etc. are for. If you can’t see the target to designate it for those guys, well you can’t hit it with a better rifle, either. I’m not necessarily against cans or 16” barrels, but I wouldn’t like to employ them together. I would be perfectly happy issued a 11.5 with a Surefire Mini. Sub-optimal for the fight you are describing, though. There’s no perfect answer, but the standard M4A1 is almost certainly the best infantry rifle ever fielded, by anyone, in its standard configuration. There are things I would change, given the budget, but it just works.


    Quote Originally Posted by vicious_cb View Post
    Optimizing for what is essentially an outlier in terms of combat distance is a bad idea. We shouldn't make the mistake of thinking future wars will be fought like Afghanistan.
    Nailed it.
    RLTW
    “Your posts will be more accurate and received much better if you form your opinions with less emotion and more objectivity and then express them as if you’re in a discussion with friends, rather than an injured and cornered animal fighting for its life.” -Revolution 9 on the hide

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1168 View Post
    I would be perfectly happy issued a 11.5 with a Surefire Mini.
    So at that barrel length you’d be ok with a short can? Like the KAC QDC CQB? Or only in certain situations?

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by BallisticHarmony View Post
    So at that barrel length you’d be ok with a short can? Like the KAC QDC CQB? Or only in certain situations?
    I’ve always worn Sordins or Peltors while out, so maximum db attenuation doesn’t matter to me. But a 11.5 + short can is similar in length to a 16” gun, and is less loud. I’m not familiar with the KAC QDC CQB, only the NT4, which I hold in very high regard, and dislike at the same time.
    RLTW
    “Your posts will be more accurate and received much better if you form your opinions with less emotion and more objectivity and then express them as if you’re in a discussion with friends, rather than an injured and cornered animal fighting for its life.” -Revolution 9 on the hide

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by sinister View Post
    It's asinine to say we need longer, heavier weapons with optics if you don't even know where enemy fire is coming from.

    Getting binos and maybe practical, light, long-distance thermals to squad leaders will help finding bad guys to fix and finish them.

    Shots fired and heavy noisemakers do not mean you're poking holes in bad guys and letting the air out of them. Any jackass can turn ammo into noise.
    At a training course I went to last year, the lead instructor said the most difficult thing you will ever do in combat is extract a casualty under fire. The second most difficult is to locate the enemy. His thoughts were very much in line with what you said here. Noise isn't effective.
    "Man is still the first weapon of war" - Field Marshal Montgomery

    The Everyday Marksman

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1168 View Post
    "....the standard M4A1 is almost certainly the best infantry rifle ever fielded, by anyone, in its standard configuration. There are things I would change, given the budget, but it just works.
    By "standard configuration" do you mean with the KAC rail? ACOG or CCO?

    If you were using one to deploy with and were given the latitude (and $$$ too) what would you change on the M4A1?

    Since you've BTDT your input is more than welcome.
    11C2P '83-'87
    Airborne Infantry

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1168 View Post
    I have relevant experience. In reference to lengthening barrels and adding KAC NT4’s... even on the end of a 14.5 in gun, those things get heavy and awkward. Especially in a mountainous region. Makes a M4 longer and heavier than a M16. On a range, its not an issue, but reallistically Soldiers spend most of their time NOT shooting, but they carry their rifles everywhere. Everytime you kneel to look at a map or something, muzzle in the dirt. Trying to get out of a vehicle, clunkety-clank. Long azz guns are a pain.

    If you can’t reach a target with a M4, thats what DMRs, snipers, mortars, air, etc. are for. If you can’t see the target to designate it for those guys, well you can’t hit it with a better rifle, either. I’m not necessarily against cans or 16” barrels, but I wouldn’t like to employ them together. I would be perfectly happy issued a 11.5 with a Surefire Mini. Sub-optimal for the fight you are describing, though. There’s no perfect answer, but the standard M4A1 is almost certainly the best infantry rifle ever fielded, by anyone, in its standard configuration. There are things I would change, given the budget, but it just works.




    Nailed it.


    Like. Thumbs up!
    Last edited by wtm75; 07-19-18 at 20:22.

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