Some hard truths about pistols (add yours)

**yoni** · 08-10-18, 15:12

I think the old SEAL Team 6 idea of using an index card has a lot going for it.

No matter the distance you need to shoot as fast as you can, while keeping all the shots on the card.

Gun fighting has a space, time factor. More space equals more time for getting a more accurate shot.

**Doc Safari** · 08-10-18, 15:17

Originally Posted by yoni

I think the old SEAL Team 6 idea of using an index card has a lot going for it.

No matter the distance you need to shoot as fast as you can, while keeping all the shots on the card.

Gun fighting has a space, time factor. More space equals more time for getting a more accurate shot.

This is good info.

I may start a flame war here, but to me putting rounds into a bullseye with slow, deliberately aimed shots has application only for putting rounds into a bullseye with slow, deliberately aimed shots.

I am constantly looking for ways to simulate movement of a target while you fire at it. I've tried balloons bobbing in the wind, the theory being that it is supposed to simulate a human head moving in and out of cover.

I've tried shooting at soda cans as they roll down a berm, the theory being that the soda can is roughly the size of a vital area on a torso, and if you can hit it while it's moving, so much the better.

I'll have to try the index card idea. I may try to rig up something like an index card holder on a radio controlled toy car or something.

The mantra oft chanted at my IDPA matches was, "You can't miss fast enough to win." So accuracy is important, but learning speed is equally important.

**Giggles** · 08-10-18, 21:05

Here is a hard truth about pistols, sometimes they have to be zeroed like any other gun.

**slowrx** · 08-15-18, 20:31

Originally Posted by yoni

I think the old SEAL Team 6 idea of using an index card has a lot going for it.

No matter the distance you need to shoot as fast as you can, while keeping all the shots on the card.

Gun fighting has a space, time factor. More space equals more time for getting a more accurate shot.

When we train in shoot houses we do that quite a bit. Staple the index card to the targets while making runs and trying to keep all shots on the card. It has definitely helped with consistency and accuracy. We have also done this static down long halls with targets shooting with our off hand

*all done with pistol and carbine, also when I say we I am referring to swat.

**MegademiC** · 08-15-18, 21:41

Grip and trigger control are equally important. The better you become, the more either will show deficiencies.

**JusticeM4** · 08-17-18, 06:45

Originally Posted by Ron3

1. The average person who actually conceals a pistol every day for defensive can NOT put 5 rds into 5 inches at 5 yds in 5 seconds from a cold start at the range. To say nothing of doing the same at 25 yds. (Doesn't make it useless of course)

Your average person is also not a trained ex-LEO/Vet. Its probably a woman or a guy who may or may not have ever held a gun.

Here's one: Glock's never malfunction.

**grizzlyblake** · 08-17-18, 12:55

Yeah, no kidding.

My wife sucks for the first few minutes on the range that I can drag her to a couple of times a year. She's pretty good with trigger control dryfiring at the TV at home though.

She's 5'0", 130lbs with a 3 month old baby. It's either laughing at how she sucks at being tactical (she doesn't even read M4C!) or helping her suck slightly less with a CC'd Glock 43 because I'm usually not with her out and about.

**Drifting Fate** · 08-17-18, 22:13

There is the axiom that, "Speed is fine, accuracy is final." Was that Wyatt Earp? Must be the AZ dirt coming out of my veins.

I was listening to a Ballistic Radio podcast (I believe, if incorrect, I apologize, lots of podcasts), that LAPD SWAT works on a 0.5 sec split time with 100% accuracy. Others I agree with tend to echo this. If true, and I can't certify that it is, LAPD SWAT is pretty difficult to argue with.

Too slow is too slow, but a fast miss doesn't count.

As I grow older, I find much of life is about balance. I once could hit split times equaling a slow sub-gun - ah, misspent youth - while keeping hits in a generous 12" circle at 5 yards. Nothing even close now. The balance is increased accuracy at the cost of hot-rodding. Four empty cases in the air looks tre' cool in pictures, and works damn well if in the Zone, but two hits a second on target closes the books every time, so sayeth LAPD if the stories are correct. (An aside, I recall a video from LAPD trying to turn the 92FS into a multi-hit, speed wonder due to 9mm vs .45 and emphasizing speed, so I guess every large organization struggles with consistency).

It's trite and from a movie, but even a broken clock is right twice a day, "aim small, miss small." There really is no substitution for shot placement. Velocity and calibre may or may not help increase the odds, but stick with what you know - the point of shooting is to hit.