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Thread: Military Weapons Trial, only the Kalashnikov AK 103 finishes the torture tests.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 7n6 View Post
    He got 5% less on his overall score with the AK than the previous year using an AR.

    Went from a 90% division score in the AR crowd to a 68% division score in the AK crowd- sounds like weapons familiarity issues.
    There was no AK division at HAH. He was one of maybe two or three shooters with an AK. And I'd bet they did a lot worse than he did - and he was using a rifle that's mechanical accuracy severely harmed his ability to compete.

    As Phagan pointed out: During the close portions he (an experienced action competitor who has constantly and consistently run similar rifles and handguns for years) and Kasarda (a guy who has admitted on camera that he can't shoot as often as he'd like and his shooting ability has suffered as a result, and he frequently runs weird and unusual guns) were neck-and-neck. Once the distances increased, Phagan was able to blow Kasarda out of the water. And this is with Kasarda running an AK set-up to be used in multigun competition.

    Kasarda's numbers from HAH2017 were established using a rifle intended to use lightweight, modern materials, to give a lightweight, practical, reliable rifle. Not a competition rifle, not a military rifle, but a defensive rifle made with advanced materials: Carbon fiber handguard, polymer lower, lighter-than-pencil barrel, flash hider. No brake, no tuning for minimal recoil, no LPVO (unlike the AK which had all of these things). Just a red dot. Which was mentioned as being less than ideal for the long-range targets at HAH.

    Quote Originally Posted by docsherm View Post
    Here is the finally on this conversation:

    The AK is a Piece of SHIT. Period. No more arguments about it. It was created to be made by idiots, used by idiots, and maintained by idiots. That is what 99% of the Soviets Army was, conscripts that had no clue. And guess what? They exported it to all of their followers around the world that were also..... wait for it...... IDIOTS.

    That being said.... If you want one to play with, great. Toys are awesome to have. As a true fighting weapon? Rethink some life choices and get quality over simplicity.


    Quote Originally Posted by SteyrAUG View Post
    The AK series has always been a reliable contender, and it's evolved into a sustainable rifle remarkably. It's service life as a primary weapon for a superpower should have ended in the late 1980s, but the 100 series has proven more adaptable than anyone ever imagined and it has remained relevant, especially in a county where the "quantity has a quality of it's own" philosophy is still observed.
    The service life of the AK as a primary service weapon for a superpower ended not long after the 1980s: 26 December 1991. Russia ceased to be a superpower when the Soviet Union collapsed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sooter76 View Post
    Pakistan aside, you do realize that only 8 rifles took part in the trials and of those at least 3, and probably as many as 5 (since NZ would probably be looking not to spend an exuberant amount on new rifles), were AR15 type rifles... The odds were in the platforms favor.
    Beretta ARX-160
    CZ 805/805 BREN
    Colt Canada C8
    FN Herstal SCAR-L
    Steyr AUG A3
    XTEK/SiG Sauer MCX or 516?
    H&K HK416
    LMT

    That's two DI ARs. Everything else is a short-stroke piston. Even if the Steyr submission was their fifteen-pound HK416 knock-off. SiG is unlikely to have submitted the M400, because that's not their premier weapon system and it's frankly a pricepoint gun, something to sell to places like Georgia, not to wealthy, Western nations like little New Zealand.

    And if the DI AR was such a stinky piece of shit, everybody who put one into the competition would have been eliminated and one of the short-stroke options would have been selected. This didn't happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by SteyrAUG View Post
    When the US Army adopted the M9 they required a double strike capability. I think we've evolved handguns enough where designs with better reliability and better accuracy exist so the M9 will probably be put out to pasture when the military no longer has a huge supply of serviceable weapons.
    Beretta's last batch of M9s exceeded the US Army's reliability requirements for the M17/M18 by a very, very wide margin, as I recall. And the 92 has a well-deserved reputation for being accurate.

    Also: Efforts to unseat the AR-15/M16 started in the 1960s, with the HK33. Hell, Eugene Stoner and ArmaLite both started trying to unseat the weapon almost as soon as the XM16E1 was provisionally adopted for US airmobile and special forces in Vietnam. And none of them have succeeded. Maybe these tests are totally bullshit and don't represent actual real-world conditions and that's why the guys on the sharp-end of the spear keep picking AR-15s over everything else that's available.
    Last edited by MountainRaven; 08-15-18 at 14:43.
    " Nil desperandum - Never Despair. That is a motto for you and me. All are not dead; and where there is a spark of patriotic fire, we will rekindle it. "
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