G&R Tactical
Page 2 of 42 FirstFirst 123412 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 416

Thread: Military Weapons Trial, only the Kalashnikov AK 103 finishes the torture tests.

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Midwest Flyover Country
    Posts
    3,101
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Kain View Post
    Okay, let me get a couple things here clear. First, the test was for 7.62 guns from the article. At which point my general shits given kind of goes the way of the dodo and a 7.62X51 platform verse an 7.62X39 Ak is not two platforms I would generally be comparing, two different missions there. An AR15 was not tested, AR10s were and various other 7.62 rifles. So the whole, "Aks are great and beat ARs." derp is rendered irrelevant in my opinion since one is running an intermediate round, the other a full blown rifle round. The fact that the author pretty much just strokes the AK's cock and makes it like AR15s suck I would be inclined to question his integrity as a writer or journalist as well, more so since caliber is referenced at most like 3 times in my reading there, and never that it wasn't a 5.56 rifle.

    My take? There is nothing I see here that isn't a 3rd world shit hole testing and deciding on the weapon that their average solider would be least likely to **** up.

    I don't think they were just 308 or 7.62x39 rifles. Looking at the photos, CZ had their 5.56 Bren, Beretta had the ARX 100 in 5.56. Steyr was invited but they only make the AUG which is in 5.56. They mention several manufacturers including SIG, Zastava, some Chinese AK's that were tested and a host of others. Also mentioned the others just submitted their testing independently but I guess that wasn't good enough for them and they wanted a more live fire demonstration. However not sure who brought which rifles and maybe somebody can discern more from the photos- only that the author's company trialed a 308 AR style rifle. They basically dropped the rifles directly into the muddy marsh on their first "pluff" mud test and then later just dug a hole then filled with water for their second mud test as seen in the photos. Not really scientific I guess. Interesting results none the less.


    7n6
    Last edited by 7n6; 08-06-18 at 00:04.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Minneapolis, MN
    Posts
    366
    Feedback Score
    2 (100%)
    CZ has been showing off their 7.62x39 bren 2 in that part of the world for a while and while obscured it looks like there is an aggressive curve to the magazine in the bren in the firing fixture indicating that is the case. Also the beretta rifles pictured are the 7.62nato ARX200.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Midwest Flyover Country
    Posts
    3,101
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by call_me_ski View Post
    CZ has been showing off their 7.62x39 bren 2 in that part of the world for a while and while obscured it looks like there is an aggressive curve to the magazine in the bren in the firing fixture indicating that is the case. Also the beretta rifles pictured are the 7.62nato ARX200.
    I didn't even know Beretta offered their rifle in 7.62NATO. Either way, that test sure seems like an eliminator. Huge fan of these mud tests and such.
    Last edited by 7n6; 08-06-18 at 00:52.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Hamburg PA
    Posts
    3,506
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by 7n6 View Post
    I don't think they were just 308 or 7.62x39 rifles. Looking at the photos, CZ had their 5.56 Bren, Beretta had the ARX 100 in 5.56. Steyr was invited but they only make the AUG which is in 5.56. They mention several manufacturers including SIG, Zastava, some Chinese AK's that were tested and a host of others. Also mentioned the others just submitted their testing independently but I guess that wasn't good enough for them and they wanted a more live fire demonstration. However not sure who brought which rifles and maybe somebody can discern more from the photos- only that the author's company trialed a 308 AR style rifle. They basically dropped the rifles directly into the muddy marsh on their first "pluff" mud test and then later just dug a hole then filled with water for their second mud test as seen in the photos. Not really scientific I guess. Interesting results none the less.


    7n6
    If the tests aren't scientific then it really isn't interesting beyond the entertainment aspect of it. I would also hazard that most of your 7.62X51 rifles are more DM rifle designs, or at least purpose when build considering western doctrine, so again disinegnious on comparison in my opinion between them and an AK everything being equal.
    As far as rifles Beretta has had their 7.62X51 ARX thing for a while, don't know when or if it will hit the states. Also looking at the pictures in the article size of magwells would indicate that there weren't 5.56 rifles there, at least not for rifles shown.
    "I don't collect guns anymore, I stockpile weapons for ****ing war." Chuck P.

    "Some days you eat the bacon, and other days the bacon eats you." SeriousStudent

    "Don't complain when after killing scores of women and children in a mall, a group of well armed men who train to shoot people like you in the face show up to say hello." WillBrink

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    OUTPOST 31
    Posts
    7,459
    Feedback Score
    29 (100%)

    Military Weapons Trial, only the Kalashnikov AK 103 finishes the torture tests.

    Quote Originally Posted by 7n6 View Post
    Says they liked the SCAR, contracted it but decided to buy AK's instead due to cost. However there is no mention on how the SCAR actually performed, just that the AK was the ONLY rifle to pass the mud tests, sand tests etc. Probably goes along with what everyone does, wants the newest most modern weapon to succeed- not the seventy year old relic.
    AK nut hugging aside why does anyone actually care what Pakistan does and how does that correspondingly validate the platform ?

    AKs are lame


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    “Answer The Bell...” J.W.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Florida Gulf Coast
    Posts
    1,386
    Feedback Score
    5 (100%)
    Congratulations to Pakistan on going backwards 70 years in weapon design.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    637
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Kain View Post
    As far as rifles Beretta has had their 7.62X51 ARX thing for a while, don't know when or if it will hit the states.
    The Beretta ARX-200 is here, It's being sold by Botach to LE only.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Midwest Flyover Country
    Posts
    3,101
    Feedback Score
    0
    Why can't we design a more reliable rifle? Why is that some seventy year old WW II relic is the only rifle that passes these extreme environmental tests? I've seen the same thing from A Regular Guy's swamp tests to MAC's pond dunking tests- the results are always the same even against the newest modern weapon designs. I think even if we redid the 1986 SWAT Magazine extreme cold weather test the results would be the same as it was then even if using newer versions of the weapons or their manufacturers best weapons today. It seems like the manufacturers are chasing the same failed mentality to design weapons with extremely tight clearances leaving no room for debris if compromised.
    Last edited by 7n6; 08-06-18 at 13:18.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Minneapolis, MN
    Posts
    366
    Feedback Score
    2 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by 7n6 View Post
    Why can't we design a more reliable rifle? Why is that some seventy year old WW II relic is the only rifle that passes these extreme environmental tests? I've seen the same thing from A Regular Guy's swamp tests to MAC's pond dunking tests- the results are always the same even against the newest modern weapon designs. I think even if we redid the 1986 SWAT Magazine extreme cold weather test the results would be the same as it was then even if using newer versions of the weapons or their manufacturers best weapons today. It seems like the manufacturers are chasing the same failed mentality to design weapons with extremely tight clearances leaving no room for debris if compromised.
    Largely because the extreme environment tests are not really practical and don't add capability in the real world. You can run 10 tests and yield 10 results. I'll stick to advancing weapons design rather than mud wrestling with an out dated design that persists because developing nations continue to find ways to justify its existence due to price.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    611
    Feedback Score
    19 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by call_me_ski View Post
    Largely because the extreme environment tests are not really practical and don't add capability in the real world. You can run 10 tests and yield 10 results. I'll stick to advancing weapons design rather than mud wrestling with an out dated design that persists because developing nations continue to find ways to justify its existence due to price.
    I agree with this. I used to run ak's exclusively. I gave them up for modernized ar's. No doubt, the ak's are a little more rugged, but I got to the point where the guns were holding me back somewhat, and I realized that I needed accuracy and ergonomics more then the slight increase in ruggedness.

    Sent from my SM-S327VL using Tapatalk

Page 2 of 42 FirstFirst 123412 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •