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Thread: Military Weapons Trial, only the Kalashnikov AK 103 finishes the torture tests.

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by call_me_ski View Post
    Largely because the extreme environment tests are not really practical and don't add capability in the real world. You can run 10 tests and yield 10 results. I'll stick to advancing weapons design rather than mud wrestling with an out dated design that persists because developing nations continue to find ways to justify its existence due to price.

    The extreme testing is relevant because the world consists of extreme environments. Only one rifle consistently performs well in those environments but unfortunately, it's seventy year old technology. It's time for a more modernized yet equally capable, robust, and ergonomic weapon for development.


    Using that superior reliable rifle as a baseline then I submit the following parameters;

    1.) Weapon should be able to fire submerged or partially submerged in water so it would need to be a piston fed design.

    2.) Weapon should survive a drop test of at least ten meters onto concrete from all angles.

    3.) Weapon should be able to fire if compromised by some debris purposely designed with clearances around internal moving components for debris.

    4.) Weapon should have a static ejector, not a spring loaded one that can be clogged with debris.

    5.) Weapon should have a reciprocating charging handle that can be used to clear stuck casings should the need arise.

    6.) Weapon should be able to function at all extreme temperatures without additional preparation other than perhaps adjusting the gas block.

    7.) Weapon should be easily field stripped with gloved hands without risk of losing small components.


    Additional items for modernization;

    1.) Weapon should be relatively sealed against outside environmental debris.

    2.) Weapon should be ambidextrous, ergonomic, and include a folding collapsible stock with re-enforced steel trunnions and hinge points.

    3.) Weapon should have a lever style magazine release but also a push button release.

    4.) Weapon should have an externally adjustable gas block with a specific setting for adverse and suppressor use with a few progressively more open settings in between for fine tuning.

    5.) Weapon should be able to have quick change barrel feature that is able to retain zero within 1-2 MOA, aka AUG style.

    6.) Upper receiver stamped steel with welded or pinned in trunnion blocks and an aluminum lower to reduce weight.

    7.) Absolutely no sheet metal screws holding anything together.


    Essentially re-design the SIG 55X with a quick change barrel feature and HK 433 style magazine release.

    Done.


    7n6
    Last edited by 7n6; 08-06-18 at 14:45.

  2. #22
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    Probably the real story behind this was that Pakistan needed an affordable, simple, and reliable rifle and the Russian AK-103 fits the bill well and this combined with a nice bribe to the Pakistani procurement managers in charge of the rifle replacement project encouraged them to design rifle evaluation criteria which would maximize on the strengths of the AK platform while avoiding evaluation criteria which would focus on the AK platform weaknesses.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7n6 View Post
    The extreme testing is relevant because the world consists of extreme environments.
    Not really. The rifle merely has to function in environments that people can function in. Humans tend to be incapacitated when they fall 30 meters, for example. So the value added by being able to work after a 30 meter drop is not worth the weight added. Iíve carried and fired the M4 and M16 series in all sorts of adverse conditions, and Iím just not that impressed by the AK. I even own a couple of samples (know thine enemy). We get it, you like pistons and op-rods. But...

    The Pakistani mil choosing to procure a weapon does not make it awesome. Remember, these are the same dirtbags that either gave safe harbor to bin Laden, or somehow didnít know he was hanging out a few blocks from military institution. They deserve garbage rifles.
    RLTW

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by crusader377 View Post
    Probably the real story behind this was that Pakistan needed an affordable, simple, and reliable rifle and the Russian AK-103 fits the bill well and this combined with a nice bribe to the Pakistani procurement managers in charge of the rifle replacement project encouraged them to design rifle evaluation criteria which would maximize on the strengths of the AK platform while avoiding evaluation criteria which would focus on the AK platform weaknesses.

    Why can't we design a modern equivalent? Something equally robust and reliable but with modernized ergonomics for today's world.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7n6 View Post
    The extreme testing is relevant because the world consists of extreme environments. Only one rifle consistently performs well in those environments but unfortunately, it's seventy year old technology. It's time for a more modernized yet equally capable, robust, and ergonomic weapon for development.


    Using that superior reliable rifle as a baseline then I submit the following parameters;

    1.) Weapon should be able to fire submerged or partially submerged in water so it would need to be a piston fed design.

    2.) Weapon should survive a drop test of at least ten meters onto concrete from all angles.

    3.) Weapon should be able to fire if compromised by some debris purposely designed with clearances around internal moving components for debris.

    4.) Weapon should have a static ejector, not a spring loaded one that can be clogged with debris.

    5.) Weapon should have a reciprocating charging handle that can be used to clear stuck casings should the need arise.

    6.) Weapon should be able to function at all extreme temperatures without additional preparation other than perhaps adjusting the gas block.

    7.) Weapon should be easily field stripped with gloved hands without risk of losing small components.


    Additional items for modernization;

    1.) Weapon should be relatively sealed against outside environmental debris.

    2.) Weapon should be ambidextrous, ergonomic, and include a folding collapsible stock with re-enforced steel trunnions and hinge points.

    3.) Weapon should have a lever style magazine release but also a push button release.

    4.) Weapon should have an externally adjustable gas block with a specific setting for adverse and suppressor use with a few progressively more open settings in between for fine tuning.

    5.) Weapon should be able to have quick change barrel feature that is able to retain zero within 1-2 MOA, aka AUG style.

    6.) Upper receiver stamped steel with welded or pinned in trunnion blocks and an aluminum lower to reduce weight.

    7.) Absolutely no sheet metal screws holding anything together.


    Essentially re-design the SIG 55X with a quick change barrel feature and HK 433 style magazine release.

    Done.


    7n6
    You forgot 'should have a last round hold open', and 'should have a safety that doesn't suck'...but all of those 'requirements' are just you trying to convince everyone that the AK is superior.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7n6 View Post
    Why can't we design a modern equivalent? Something equally robust and reliable but with modernized ergonomics for today's world.
    We do have such a rifle. It is called the M4 and M4A1 and it meets all of that criteria.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by eodinert View Post
    You forgot 'should have a last round hold open', and 'should have a safety that doesn't suck'...but all of those 'requirements' are just you trying to convince everyone that the AK is superior.
    Already stated that my ideal rifle would essentially be a modified SIG 55X type with QD barrel- so modernized ergo's is inferred. Getting back to the article, even today, given all the manufacturers competing and submitted weapons for testing prior, the only one that completed the extreme environmental testing is a seventy year old design. This is also one of the few state level formal rifle tests that I've ever seen that involved multiple platforms- which is why it was of interest. Seen similar results testing many of these same weapons in the civilian world but those tests are discounted because they are just "backyard" torture tests. Seems these more formal results should be a wake up call to manufacturers and with our technology we should be able to design something better.


    Quote Originally Posted by crusader377 View Post
    We do have such a rifle. It is called the M4 and M4A1 and it meets all of that criteria.
    No, it's not even close.

  8. #28
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    We need a sub forum titled 7n6's train depot & AK emporium.

    Every time I read about the 10m onto concrete drop test 'requirement' I get the chuckles.

    Also, the user that noted that bolt hold open and a decent safety is spot on.

    A redesigned Sig SG55X rifle would be pretty badass. Oh wait, isn't that a SCAR...?

    (((INITIATE THE COUNTDOWN UNTIL 7N6 POSTS ABOUT THE SCAR TRUNION PROBLEMS THAT START TO CROP UP AFTER 140K ROUNDS)))

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by crusader377 View Post
    We do have such a rifle. It is called the M4 and M4A1 and it meets all of that criteria.
    Well put, sir.
    RLTW

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by noonesshowmonkey View Post
    We need a sub forum titled 7n6's train depot & AK emporium.

    Every time I read about the 10m onto concrete drop test 'requirement' I get the chuckles.

    Also, the user that noted that bolt hold open and a decent safety is spot on.

    A redesigned Sig SG55X rifle would be pretty badass. Oh wait, isn't that a SCAR...?

    (((INITIATE THE COUNTDOWN UNTIL 7N6 POSTS ABOUT THE SCAR TRUNION PROBLEMS THAT START TO CROP UP AFTER 140K ROUNDS)))
    ROFL so much win in this post.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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