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Thread: 5.56: Fragmentation or Expansion?

  1. #11
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    The FBI is under no bullet design restrictions, and chose a barrier blind expanding load.

    Barrier blind gives you more than the haters care to admit. For example, bullets that do well vs the windshield test do well going through bone. Intermediate barriers could end up being the arm of your attacker.

    Expanding bullets are more consistent in performance. Fragmenting designs can sometimes fail to fragment, or fragment too much without enough penetration. I'm more open to fragmenting designs in a larger caliber, the 5.56 just starts without much room to loose any bullet weight and go deep enough.

  2. #12
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    I realize there are probably other threads on this, but since brand names have been mentioned, I'd like to know where Federal Fusion fits in the food chain. (Like my alliteration?)


    W.I. Thomas: "If men define situations as real, they are real in their consequences".

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by BallisticHarmony View Post
    Sounds a lot like M855A1
    THIS^^^^^

    M855A1 is pretty much the magic bullet- fragments violently at even fairly low velocities with no neck yet penetrates barriers handily.
    Last edited by kaltesherz; 08-10-18 at 10:22.
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  4. #14
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    When discussing fragmenting bullets, by default I consider them to be SMK and other open tip match bullets, lightly constructed varmint bullets, and M855. The M855A1 seems like an entirely different animal, and not exactly readily available.
    Last edited by grizzman; 08-10-18 at 10:50.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Glockster View Post
    I realize there are probably other threads on this, but since brand names have been mentioned, I'd like to know where Federal Fusion fits in the food chain. (Like my alliteration?)
    I have had good luck with them hunting white tail and hogs. From DocGKR's post as DefaultMP3 quoted;

    ...Most other acceptable LE barrier blind loadings are at .223 pressures, including the .223 55 & 62 gr Federal bonded JSP Tactical loads (LE223T1 & LE223T3), along with loads using Nosler 60 gr Partition JSP, Remington 62 gr Core-Lokt Ultra Bonded JSP (PRC223R4), .223 Federal 55 gr TSX (T223S), .223 Horn 55 gr GMX, and the .223 Speer 62/64 gr Gold Dot JSP's (and identically constructed Federal 62 gr Fusion JSP and Federal XM223SP1 62gr Bonded JSP). ...
    Last edited by TexasAggie2005; 08-10-18 at 12:32.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by grizzman View Post
    When discussing fragmenting bullets, by default I consider them to be SMK and other open tip match bullets, lightly constructed varmint bullets, and M855. The M855A1 seems like an entirely different animal, and not exactly readily available.
    The OP didn't specify readily available, and M855A1 was designed to fragment much better and at much lower velocities than M855. M855 had a much longer neck and wouldn't frag past 80-120m out of an 14.5 barrel, from what I can tell M855A1 frags with no neck at least to 300m, probably further. And it punches through barriers better than 7.62x51. You're right about SMK's being the previous leaders in fragmenting designs, but M855A1 and M80A1 have shown you can have the best of both worlds now.
    PRAISE THE FALLEN
    SSG Kevin Roberts KIA 7-May-08
    1Lt Nick Dewhirst KIA 20-July-08
    Cpl Charles Gaffney KIA 24-Dec-08
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    PFC Jason Watson KIA 10-Feb-09

  7. #17
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    This is fascinating. Does anyone know which barrier blind expanding round requires the least amount of velocity to perform properly? I assume heavier rounds would do better at longer ranges since they lose velocity more slowly?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BallisticHarmony View Post
    This is fascinating. Does anyone know which barrier blind expanding round requires the least amount of velocity to perform properly? I assume heavier rounds would do better at longer ranges since they lose velocity more slowly?
    Not necessarly so. The heavy bonded bullets have varying BCís among specific offerings, meaning some of the 62gr offerings may be better at extended ranges than some of the 75ís. Hornady TAP 5.56 SBR 75, for example has no boattail and a wide tip, leaving lots of BC on the table. It also has a relatively low muzzle velocity (like .223). Iím sure it wrecks shop at close range.

    There are probably 75gr bonded rounds that are better at long range than their 62gr counterparts, but they elude me so far, personally.
    RLTW

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1168 View Post
    Not necessarly so. The heavy bonded bullets have varying BCís among specific offerings, meaning some of the 62gr offerings may be better at extended ranges than some of the 75ís. Hornady TAP 5.56 SBR 75, for example has no boattail and a wide tip, leaving lots of BC on the table. It also has a relatively low muzzle velocity (like .223). Iím sure it wrecks shop at close range.

    There are probably 75gr bonded rounds that are better at long range than their 62gr counterparts, but they elude me so far, personally.
    Well then it could be argued that until there is more empirical data on the effective expanding ranges of various bonded rounds, SMKs or TMKs (or GMKs?) are a safer wounding choice for engagements where range is variable.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by BallisticHarmony View Post
    Well then it could be argued that until there is more empirical data on the effective expanding ranges of various bonded rounds, SMKs or TMKs (or GMKs?) are a safer wounding choice for engagements where range is variable.
    Thatís not quite what I meant, sorry for the confusion. There is some info about expansion threshold with the bonded bullets, you just have to dig. Bonded bullets appear to be the best *available* choice for general use when you may have to engage targets at unknown distances and cannot predict your targetís use and availability of cover. Edit: concealment/barricades

    Andrew at the Chopping Block youtube channel got good gel results out of the Fusion projectile handloaded at 1700fps, which I think is the low threshold for TMK. So even at the low end, bonded bullets work, and still have the barrier advantages.
    Last edited by 1168; 08-10-18 at 14:39. Reason: Accuracy

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