Ok HK, You win... Or, how I learned an even deeper truth.

[Intransigent]

I was and have been for the last ten years a dedicated glockolero. I have multiple examples and holsters and I was carrying them and training weekly with them. My "carry/comp gun" box was checked... ...Until recently...
As I get older, I find that my value assessments are changing with new experiences/realizations. One being that a very switched on shooter that I am acquainted with recently shot through both of his ass cheeks on a timed drill from his holster, the other being that HK has reduced the price of the P30 to roughly Gen5 prices.

I had standardized around the Gen4 glocks, which functioned fine for me but around 5-6k started to kick brass at the face in two examples (2010-11 vintage)- replacing extractor parts made it better, but I had issues with the slide showing rust if I wore the gun and sweat on it at all. I adapted by simply giving a wipe after dry fire, but annoying as I have never seen a Gen2 or 3 rust. Period.

I found myself considering the pro's and con's of jumping on the G5 bandwagon, my chief interest was the new DLC coating on the slide. The lack of finger grooves was neutral in the consideration as the G4 grooves are fine and I already have a G2 17. Plus the whole "OMG NEW GEN" pricing increase. I realized that I was only interested in the G5 to correct issues I had had with the G4, none of which were really deal breakers.

Then I found out that one of my grail guns, the P30, only cost one Glock, instead of it's usual 1.5 - 2.0 Glock price tag. So I treated myself to a P30 V3 da/sa.
-THIS IS WHERE LEARNING OCCURRED-

First off, if any handgun has the absolute polar opposite of a Glock trigger, it's the HK. Instead of a short take up and short travel to a rolling break, the HK invites you to take a journey with it's trigger on a long and mushy road to a wall made of celery, then at long last, the break. After the shot, instead of a reset that you can feel with your eyes closed (more on that in a second) you have a weird sproingy reset that takes you past the break so you can have all the anticipations. However, even with it's mythically bad trigger, it is extremely accurate. It puts rounds where you are aiming, in a way that causes you to assess your technique to see if you can put that accuracy to use. In this process I have become a much better shooter.

See, I, like lots of Glock shooters, initially thought that the Glock had a steep learning curve, and it may depending on ones' background, but shooting the P30 I have realized that most of that last 20% I have been battling with the Glock to wring out perfomance-wise, have to do with the fact that the gun is providing so much tactile feedback with regards to trigger and orientation that I can almost shoot the gun by feel. Without being diligent to track the sights, I can count on a flyer or two when I mash the gas, or add the stress of a timer.

The P30 has no mercy for you if you are trying to shoot the gun by feel, it's almost like you have to ignore the trigger completely. Completely. Then the gun starts to sing. If you focus on the sight, magically the groups center immediately and I find myself taking shots with confidence that I would have some butterflies with the Glock. I realize, dear reader, that right now you are thinking "Who is this noob? Duh, of course you have to watch the front sight, pshaw" or "I wonder if this idiot has tried this with his Glock, he will abandon that over-complicated HK!"

Well, You're both right. I have realized that in fact the Glock has an expert's trigger, and one suited perfectly to reactionary shooting.

I started this journey because I really like thumbing the hammer before I point the muzzle at my femoral or some of my favorite anatomy in AIWB. I also really get a warm and fuzzy from the fact that I perceive HK's QA processes to be top notch and I really like that every gun leaves their factory zeroed.
I am a civilian CWP holder, I have to defend myself and my actions in case of a shooting. So I can appreciate a trigger that gives one time to be deliberate.
For anyone who is also considering a P30, go into it with eyes open. It's like driving a Porsche. You have to be on your game, but it performs spectacularly if you do your part. Get the LEM, no seriously, get the LEM and make it a TLG LEM. As long as I am pulling the trigger like it were a J-frame, and I'm in this zen headspace where I'm on the front sight like it's got tiny writing on it I can nail 20 yd headshots as fast as I can pull the trigger on an Standard IDPA target. I have been shooting the P30 for the last 8 months and the LEM exclusively for the last 6.
I just wanted to share my experiences with my own personal idiosyncrasies, hopefully it makes sense, thanks for listening to this ramble.

[hotrodder636]

HKs have been the majoroty of my collection for 10 to 12 years and i can understand what you speak of in your Porsche analogy. I too own Glocks, Berettas and other but always take at least one HK to the range when I go.

[ralph]

I was and have been for the last ten years a dedicated glockolero. I have multiple examples and holsters and I was carrying them and training weekly with them. My "carry/comp gun" box was checked... ...Until recently...
As I get older, I find that my value assessments are changing with new experiences/realizations. One being that a very switched on shooter that I am acquainted with recently shot through both of his ass cheeks on a timed drill from his holster, the other being that HK has reduced the price of the P30 to roughly Gen5 prices.

I had standardized around the Gen4 glocks, which functioned fine for me but around 5-6k started to kick brass at the face in two examples (2010-11 vintage)- replacing extractor parts made it better, but I had issues with the slide showing rust if I wore the gun and sweat on it at all. I adapted by simply giving a wipe after dry fire, but annoying as I have never seen a Gen2 or 3 rust. Period.

I found myself considering the pro's and con's of jumping on the G5 bandwagon, my chief interest was the new DLC coating on the slide. The lack of finger grooves was neutral in the consideration as the G4 grooves are fine and I already have a G2 17. Plus the whole "OMG NEW GEN" pricing increase. I realized that I was only interested in the G5 to correct issues I had had with the G4, none of which were really deal breakers.

Then I found out that one of my grail guns, the P30, only cost one Glock, instead of it's usual 1.5 - 2.0 Glock price tag. So I treated myself to a P30 V3 da/sa.
-THIS IS WHERE LEARNING OCCURRED-

First off, if any handgun has the absolute polar opposite of a Glock trigger, it's the HK. Instead of a short take up and short travel to a rolling break, the HK invites you to take a journey with it's trigger on a long and mushy road to a wall made of celery, then at long last, the break. After the shot, instead of a reset that you can feel with your eyes closed (more on that in a second) you have a weird sproingy reset that takes you past the break so you can have all the anticipations. However, even with it's mythically bad trigger, it is extremely accurate. It puts rounds where you are aiming, in a way that causes you to assess your technique to see if you can put that accuracy to use. In this process I have become a much better shooter.

See, I, like lots of Glock shooters, initially thought that the Glock had a steep learning curve, and it may depending on ones' background, but shooting the P30 I have realized that most of that last 20% I have been battling with the Glock to wring out perfomance-wise, have to do with the fact that the gun is providing so much tactile feedback with regards to trigger and orientation that I can almost shoot the gun by feel. Without being diligent to track the sights, I can count on a flyer or two when I mash the gas, or add the stress of a timer.

The P30 has no mercy for you if you are trying to shoot the gun by feel, it's almost like you have to ignore the trigger completely. Completely. Then the gun starts to sing. If you focus on the sight, magically the groups center immediately and I find myself taking shots with confidence that I would have some butterflies with the Glock. I realize, dear reader, that right now you are thinking "Who is this noob? Duh, of course you have to watch the front sight, pshaw" or "I wonder if this idiot has tried this with his Glock, he will abandon that over-complicated HK!"

Well, You're both right. I have realized that in fact the Glock has an expert's trigger, and one suited perfectly to reactionary shooting.

I started this journey because I really like thumbing the hammer before I point the muzzle at my femoral or some of my favorite anatomy in AIWB. I also really get a warm and fuzzy from the fact that I perceive HK's QA processes to be top notch and I really like that every gun leaves their factory zeroed.
I am a civilian CWP holder, I have to defend myself and my actions in case of a shooting. So I can appreciate a trigger that gives one time to be deliberate.
For anyone who is also considering a P30, go into it with eyes open. It's like driving a Porsche. You have to be on your game, but it performs spectacularly if you do your part. Get the LEM, no seriously, get the LEM and make it a TLG LEM. As long as I am pulling the trigger like it were a J-frame, and I'm in this zen headspace where I'm on the front sight like it's got tiny writing on it I can nail 20 yd headshots as fast as I can pull the trigger on an Standard IDPA target. I have been shooting the P30 for the last 8 months and the LEM exclusively for the last 6.
I just wanted to share my experiences with my own personal idiosyncrasies, hopefully it makes sense, thanks for listening to this ramble.

Beleive me, I get it.. I went to DA/SA a couple years ago, mainly because I feel that DA/SA guns offer a level of saftey that striker fired, especially fully tensioned striker fired guns (Walther PPQ, HK VP9) can't offer. After shooting DA/SA pistols for awhile (6-8 months) I began to wonder if I could shoot a LEM again, I had P-2000 in LEM before and had done horribly with it. I was also mainly shooting Glocks at the time, and clearly, the two didn't mix for me..I can only guess that I had'nt learned the basic of shooting a DA/SA pistol..trigger control...

About a year ago,I found a HK USPc with a LEM trigger (with ambi saftey levers, that's odd..) in 9mm, NIB, in the LGS I shop at, in the used counter.. The price was cheap, $400..The story behind it was interesting..this was part of a contract that HK had made for somebody, and then they didn't for some reason, take delievery.. supposedly, HK sold them (around 1500 pistols? I don't know) to a German wholesaler, who in turn, sold them to an American wholesaler, who brought them into the U.S. and put a importers mark on the right side of the slide..The pistol came with a HK factory test target, (Hk stopped doing this to pistols being shipped to the U.S. years ago) so, no doubt it was intended to go somewhere else, the test target was serial numbered to the pistol,and was shot at 15m, and had 5 rnds into a knot hole in the bull, measuring about 1 1/4" if this was shot offhand, this guy is good...

I took it out to the range with the idea that if I could'nt shoot it well I'd simply convert it to one of the DA/SA variants.. I did a little dry firing and loaded the mags up, much to my suprise on the second mag this thing was shooting great! I put about 300rnds through it that day, and by the end of the day, I was impressed!!! I just found my next carry pistol. I was shooting this waaay better than any of my DA/SA pistols.Why exactly I clicked with this pistol at this point in time, I can only guess, I figure shooting DA/SA pistols only the previous 6-8months probably helped more than I know. I figure I finally learned trigger control, and this allowed me to advance to something like a LEM.. I know the LEM isn't for everybody, but if you can get on to it, it really is an excellant system... If I stumble across another one of these at the right price, I'm buying..

[100]

Welcome the hk world I’ve got atleast 5 hk handguns, they are they post reliable weapons you’ll ever find. The hkpro forum could teach you a lot too

[veeref]

What you mentioned about focusing on the sight and ignoring the trigger reflects my experience as well. While the LEM allows for quick follow-ups, the reset is so subtle you almost have to just memorize the reset distance. Of my Shield, Glocks, and HKs, the LEM probably takes the most trigger time to become consistent with. The biggest frustration was trying to be both accurate AND fast with the strings of fire.

When I go to requal, it becomes glaringly obvious who has been practicing between sessions.

Where the design shines is, as you mentioned, as a carry gun. There’s definitely something re-assuring being able to put your thumb on the hammer when holstering. I guess you could do the same on the draw as well but that would be awkward IMo.

[m4brian]

Rented a P30 recently. Good gun. Shot with my P228 for the most part, The paddle and hooked trigger combine to rub my finger a bit. But I could live with it. DA travel is a tad long but shoots well. Don’t want LEM. I do think paddles put buttons in the dirt. Overall I don’t get the trigger hate on HK.

[jpmuscle]

HKmasterrace


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BrigandTwoFour]

I find the number of people talking about going back to DA/SA lately interesting. I did the same, but from an FNS-9 to a CZ P07.

The extra reassurance of the hammer is nice to have. Mastering the DA takes more work on fundamentals, but it makes you a better overall shooter.

[Intransigent]

I find the number of people talking about going back to DA/SA lately interesting. I did the same, but from an FNS-9 to a CZ P07.

The extra reassurance of the hammer is nice to have. Mastering the DA takes more work on fundamentals, but it makes you a better overall shooter.

It’s probably just a hipster reaction to the conventional wisdom that strikers > every other type.
However, I get to shoot with some BTDT types for whom things like “shootability” don’t enter into their calculation, watching them pick up famously bad trigger systems and run them as well as tuned and slicked up race guns really drives home the ole “Indian not the arrow” trope. Which illustrates for me as a shooter what gaps I let equipment fill in my skill set. It all kind of started when I stopped putting any kind of go fast parts in a Glock and just decided to shoot them stock, this has progressed into a desire to define universal traits for accurate and fast shooting. Really this whole thing is just a case of everything new is well forgotten old, as a generation of striker fired adepts leave the nest and start to explore gear selection to optimize for different missions/mitigate drawbacks. I’m still getting crushed on split times vs a Glock but I’m experienced enough to know that a lethal force encounter entails a whole lot more than the actual gun fight, so that parameter is not the only one to optimize for.

[BrigandTwoFour]

Oh yeah, totally on board with that.

I think most people reach a similar phase eventually. I’ve circled back to recommending basic AR configurations rather than a lot of go fast parts for the same reason. You eventually realize substituting expensive parts for solid fundamentals only gets you so far.