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Thread: Question: "Muzzle Energy" vs. "Power Factor"

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegademiC View Post
    Can you share what +p+ 9mm loads have good street results?
    In addition to the +P+ Ranger 127 grain. The 9BPLE ( 115 Grn JHP+P+), which was the gold standard for a decade or more.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nanuk View Post
    Some people are still mystified as to why a 357 magnum is so much more effective than a 38 Special when they use the same bullet, the magnum moves about 500 fps faster which effectively doubles the energy.
    No. Nobody who follows modern terminal ballistics is the least bit mystified.

    Early HP bullets were designed by shooting into water. Water causes a HP bullet to expand reliably at a lower velocity, so 357 did better than 38 and light +P 9mm did better than the slower heavier bullets. (In unobstructed shootings where the lack of penetration didn't come into play)

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd.K View Post
    No. Nobody who follows modern terminal ballistics is the least bit mystified.

    Early HP bullets were designed by shooting into water. Water causes a HP bullet to expand reliably at a lower velocity, so 357 did better than 38 and light +P 9mm did better than the slower heavier bullets. (In unobstructed shootings where the lack of penetration didn't come into play)
    Both the 357 magnum and the 9mm +P+ work very well on people.

  4. #14
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    There are plenty of standard pressure 9mm that performs as well, without the extra recoil and blast.

    Basically there is a minimum amount of energy needed to reliably both expand and penetrate enough. More power can give you a little more of one or both, but that doesn't translate to significantly increased terminal performance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd.K View Post
    There are plenty of standard pressure 9mm that performs as well, without the extra recoil and blast.

    Basically there is a minimum amount of energy needed to reliably both expand and penetrate enough. More power can give you a little more of one or both, but that doesn't translate to significantly increased terminal performance.
    Are you saying that based on gelatin tests or street results?

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nanuk View Post
    Are you saying that based on gelatin tests or street results?
    Not Todd, but rounds that perform well in the FBI tests, recommended by DocGKR perform well “in the street”... so “both”.

    147gr hst
    147gr golddot
    124gr +p gd
    All are top loads in gel testing and have performed very well in OIS.

  7. #17
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    FBI testing has been backed up by a significant amount of OIS examinations. There are no fact based reasons to question gel testing.

    No pistol caliber wounds are not impressive, so the difference between the best performing 9/40/45/9+P is just not worth worrying about.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd.K View Post
    FBI testing has been backed up by a significant amount of OIS examinations. There are no fact based reasons to question gel testing.

    No pistol caliber wounds are not impressive, so the difference between the best performing 9/40/45/9+P is just not worth worrying about.
    Must be why I like the 357 Sig and magnum.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegademiC View Post
    Not Todd, but rounds that perform well in the FBI tests, recommended by DocGKR perform well “in the street”... so “both”.

    147gr hst
    147gr golddot
    124gr +p gd
    All are top loads in gel testing and have performed very well in OIS.
    Actually, they don't perform on the street any better than bullets did before the FBI protocol. I was a cop then too, people still occasionally need to be shot alot to stop them. The Cop that was just shot in Cicero, Il was shot 4 times, stayed in the fight, radioed it in.

  10. #20
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    No pistol caliber wounds are impressive.
    None.
    I didn't exclude 357 Sig and magnum (10mm) from that statement. I didn't include them in common service calibers because they are not common.

    Anecdotal "street" performance is usually used to disregard testing that doesn't match up to ones biases.

    I believe gel testing is a consistent medium to test bullet performance. I believe the experts that say actual shooting results compare well to the gel results. Gel results don't show any significant increase in wounding from magnum or +P.

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