DA/SA unsuitable for the tactical population?

[jrhunden]

I see some instructors advocating a DA/SA pistol for CCW, because the DA pull reduce the risk for NDs, and give you time to evaluate the situation before the hammer falls. Many agencys also issue a DA/SA pistol.

I have experience with DA/SA pistols competing in practical shooting, but I use a striker pistol for duty. I have some observations that I would like to get challenged.

Line your sights up on a target that requires a precision shot, put your finger on the trigger and time how long it takes from beep to shot. This simulates a situation where a police officer/civilian hold somebody at gun point, when the situation suddenly require a precision shot. Time this with a DA, SA and striker pull.

I timed myself on an upper A zone target at 10 meter. My results were: DA (no prepping): 0,5 s, SA: 0,2 s, Striker: 0,25 s.

As an USPSA competitor the long DA pull doesn't matter as much, I can prep my trigger during my draw, and hardly lose any time. Prepping the trigger on the draw is less of an alternative in tactical situations, where there is a thin line between prepping the trigger, and a ND, especially when a really fast precision shot is required. It doesn't matter as much if you know it is a shoot situation when you draw your gun. This is even worse when holding someone at gun point, if the situation requires you to shoot right now, DA is twice as slow as SA/striker per my personal results…

For these reasons my view is that DA isn't really suited neither for civilians nor the tactical population. Where is my logic flawed? :/

[Arik]

Most people who successfully defend themselves with guns rarely practice and don't give much thought to DA or striker. Many use revolvers.

Not all hammer fired guns have the same trigger pull weight. My CZ P07 is about 4# lighter than my Beretta 92/Sig 226/SW 5906. The 5906 is lighter than the 92 and the 226.

I don't over think It. Just practice with what ya got

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

[MegademiC]

Most people who successfully defend themselves with guns rarely practice and don't give much thought to DA or striker. Many use revolvers.

Not all hammer fired guns have the same trigger pull weight. My CZ P07 is about 4# lighter than my Beretta 92/Sig 226/SW 5906. The 5906 is lighter than the 92 and the 226.

I don't over think It. Just practice with what ya got

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

This. I can outshoot a lot of people regardless of what gun they or I have.
There are a lot of people who can outshoot me regardless of what gun they or I have.

The hardware difference is largely overshadowed by basic skills.

Another way of looking at it: Can you smash a rough DA trigger and get black on a b8 at 25yds? What about a SA tigger? It would be hard to find someone who could consistently do it with SA and not DA.

Edit- are you saying you cannot shoot faster than .5 splits if its dao? Honestly, .5 is a long time, I think dedicated da dry fire could really shave that down substantially.

[yoni]

I could not disagree more, my CZ CGW P07 is among the best pistols I have ever had.

The DA is so smooth, that I can make good first round hits with the pistol from 0 to 25 meters.

I know of multiple vets from Delta that love the CZ P09/07.

99% of the time the pistol you will find me with is the CZ, it is just that great.

[WillBrink]

I see some instructors advocating a DA/SA pistol for CCW, because the DA pull reduce the risk for NDs, and give you time to evaluate the situation before the hammer falls. Many agencys also issue a DA/SA pistol.

I have experience with DA/SA pistols competing in practical shooting, but I use a striker pistol for duty. I have some observations that I would like to get challenged.

Line your sights up on a target that requires a precision shot, put your finger on the trigger and time how long it takes from beep to shot. This simulates a situation where a police officer/civilian hold somebody at gun point, when the situation suddenly require a precision shot. Time this with a DA, SA and striker pull.

I timed myself on an upper A zone target at 10 meter. My results were: DA (no prepping): 0,5 s, SA: 0,2 s, Striker: 0,25 s.

As an USPSA competitor the long DA pull doesn't matter as much, I can prep my trigger during my draw, and hardly lose any time. Prepping the trigger on the draw is less of an alternative in tactical situations, where there is a thin line between prepping the trigger, and a ND, especially when a really fast precision shot is required. It doesn't matter as much if you know it is a shoot situation when you draw your gun. This is even worse when holding someone at gun point, if the situation requires you to shoot right now, DA is twice as slow as SA/striker per my personal results…

For these reasons my view is that DA isn't really suited neither for civilians nor the tactical population. Where is my logic flawed? :/

As large numbers of your HSLD types have been putting bad guys down for decades with DA/SA and DA guns, seems a rather moot point. You practice with what you have until you get the results/performance you need. There's many a combat DA shooter that are fast and accurate.

[diving dave]

As Louis Awerbuck often said," its the Indian, not the arrow".

[Rifleman_04]

For these reasons my view is that DA isn't really suited neither for civilians nor the tactical population. Where is my logic flawed? :/

Your logic is flawed in that you are using a sample size of one (you) and your skill level and knowledge is unquantifiable thus can’t be used to generalize or determine suitability of either skilled civilian or professional tactical shooters use of a DA/SA gun.

[lordmorgul]

You talk about a precision shot like a hostage situation but keep assuming the DA only alternative not DA/SA. I think you’re basically arguing that DAO is a poor choice.


Andrew - Lancaster, CA
NRA Life Member, Calguns.net contributor, CGF / SAF / CRPA / FPC / USCCA member

[HeruMew]

I could not disagree more, my CZ CGW P07 is among the best pistols I have ever had.

The DA is so smooth, that I can make good first round hits with the pistol from 0 to 25 meters.

I know of multiple vets from Delta that love the CZ P09/07.

99% of the time the pistol you will find me with is the CZ, it is just that great.

Agreed. Mine is a non-Cajunized P07. I can ring 6" steel plates at 30 yards in my DA. It took time, and practice, but after a good day and 250 rounds, I could hit it regularly without issue.

Just like my Glock 26, it's a hard bugger to shoot, but I can hit those 6" plates with that too from 25-30. It takes practice, dry-fire, and slow intentional shots; this will build your technique, and it gets faster and faster. But it's not impossible in either platform. I will admit, the SA is amazing with the P07.

[jrhunden]

What's the most important shot? Your first one. As I said during a draw the slower DA trigger is mitigated by prepping it during the draw, noe time is really lost. The same is almost true for bringing the gun up from a ready position.

My view is that the DA pull is significantly slower than a SA/striker trigger pull. If some HSLD guys can refer to some numbers on the timer that proves otherwise, I'm all ears. For ME it is twice as slow, finger on trigger, no prep, but sights lined up from 10-15 yards. This is the reality of the precision shooting that's needed in a dynamic situation where non-hostiles are present.

An example from the world of USPSA: If engaging a fast top swinger, would you like to do it with a DA pull or a SA/striker pull?