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Thread: BRT OPTIMUM Barrels

  1. #641
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironman8 View Post
    with an A5H2 buffer, will the SpringCo Green run well unsuppressed?
    My experience is the A5H2 setup with a green spring is optimal for shooting full power 5.56 ammo, suppressed or unsuppressed, from barrels as short as 10.5" to a full 20".
    INSIDE PLAN OF BOX
    1. ROAD-RUNNER LIFTS GLASS OF WATER- PULLING UP MATCH
    2. MATCH SCRATCHES ON MATCH-BOX
    3. MATCH LIGHTS FUSE TO TNT
    4. BOOM!
    5. HA-HA!!

    -WILE E. COYOTE, AUTHOR OF "EVERYTHING I NEEDED TO KNOW IN LIFE, I LEARNED FROM GOLDBERG & MURPHY"

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  2. #642
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    Quote Originally Posted by MistWolf View Post
    My experience is the A5H2 setup with a green spring is optimal for shooting full power 5.56 ammo, suppressed or unsuppressed, from barrels as short as 10.5" to a full 20".
    Thanks bud. That’s about what I was expecting since it’s supposedly a standard spring strength.

  3. #643
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    Quote Originally Posted by MistWolf View Post
    My experience is the A5H2 setup with a green spring is optimal for shooting full power 5.56 ammo, suppressed or unsuppressed, from barrels as short as 10.5" to a full 20".
    Have you compared it to the Vltor A5 spring? Referring to this quote.

    Quote Originally Posted by BufordTJustice View Post
    I have used every quality rifle spring (Colt, BCM, Brownells SS, Brownells CS, Tubbs flat wire, Springco Green, Wolff reduced power, & Wolff std power.) And the factory copper washed Vltor A5 spring provided the smoothest recoil impulse.

    It's literally one of the only situations where the factory spring is best.

    Because it is a rifle spring, it will have an inherently longer life than carbine springs.

    I've got two Vltor A5 springs that have over 4000 rounds on them and their length is identical to a factory new Vltor spring.

    EDIT: My wife uses my old upper, a BCM 14.5" middy, and she uses the std Vltor copper washed spring with an A5H4 buffer. It's the apex setup for that gas system when not using a suppressor.

  4. #644
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    Quote Originally Posted by Disciple View Post
    Have you compared it to the Vltor A5 spring? Referring to this quote.
    I have used the VLTOR action spring. I didn't find the Sprinco green action spring to be any smoother, but the green spring offers advantages I prefer. This isn't to take away from Buford's experience, nor to say mine outweighs his. Any quality rifle action spring will work.

    Subjective reasons I find the Sprinco green spring to be optimal with 5.56 ammo-
    -The VLTOR spring collapsed a bit. That may have to do with the fact I used the VLTOR spring to test an S&W MP10 308 which had an A5 style RE and came with a carbine weight buffer. I also used the green spring, but it didn't lose any length
    -I just go to the Sprinco website to order new springs. I don't have to look around
    -Sprinco spring rates seem to be consistent spring to spring
    -Sprinco springs are color coded making spring identification easy
    -Regardless of upper configuration, the A5 RE with A5H2 buffer & green spring gives me the softest recoil without compromising reliability. If there are problems, such as short stroking, stovepipes or bolt overs, I know it's the upper.
    -The set-up has earned my trust
    Last edited by MistWolf; 11-14-20 at 00:31.
    INSIDE PLAN OF BOX
    1. ROAD-RUNNER LIFTS GLASS OF WATER- PULLING UP MATCH
    2. MATCH SCRATCHES ON MATCH-BOX
    3. MATCH LIGHTS FUSE TO TNT
    4. BOOM!
    5. HA-HA!!

    -WILE E. COYOTE, AUTHOR OF "EVERYTHING I NEEDED TO KNOW IN LIFE, I LEARNED FROM GOLDBERG & MURPHY"

    http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n289/SgtSongDog/AR%20Carbine/DSC_0114.jpg
    I am American

  5. #645
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    I was finally able to chrono some loads today from my 12.5:

    Fed XM193: 2879
    Wolf Gold: 2677
    IMI 77 OTM: 2560
    Speer Gold Dot 75gr: 2272

    I'm happy with the XM193, but it looks like I'll need to find a faster expanding load.

  6. #646
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    Those are some really good numbers Jerry.

    Today I was working on some load development with my 16 MPR. While I wasn't getting the velocities I wanted, I am gonna blame the powder for that. The flip side is that my best 5 shot group with the 77gr SMK's measured at 0.62" using ballistic-X software. I would post the pick but Imgur doesn't seem to be liking me at the moment. Multiple of the loads in the ladder test had a 3 shot clover leaf then a random 2 fliers. Still very impressed with the accuracy potential in this barrel with hand loads.

    My load was as follows:
    Win brass
    Fed primer
    H335 21.1gr-23.4gr (2425 FPS - 2580 FPS)
    77gr SMK 2.260 OAL

    Since I didn't get pressure signs I am gonna try up to a 24.x grain load and see if I can get to 2650 FPS and a nice group. One thing I found very interesting was how the gun was gassed. It felt like it really did live up to the hype of eating anything I fed it. The 21.1gr loads where incredibly anemic loads that made the action feel sluggish, yet it locked back every time. The 23.4gr loads are getting much closer to starting pressures for 556 and the gun was ultra flat shooting.

    Over all I am very happy with my newest AR tube for the intended purposes.
    "Just throw Krylon on it"

  7. #647
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    Quote Originally Posted by littlejerry View Post
    I was finally able to chrono some loads today from my 12.5:

    Fed XM193: 2879
    Wolf Gold: 2677
    IMI 77 OTM: 2560
    Speer Gold Dot 75gr: 2272

    I'm happy with the XM193, but it looks like I'll need to find a faster expanding load.
    Did you happen to get any accuracy numbers?

    Also as another data point for those wondering if these barrels shoot faster...

    From my 12.5" Centurion:

    MK262: 2514, 2525 & 2539 FPS (three different 5 shot groups)
    IMI 77gr OTM: 2589 FPS

  8. #648
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    Im starting to think that no barrel is magically faster than any others. Maybe in theory one might be a few fps faster because of rifling seal or whatever, but in practice it seems to be much more load dependent. For example both of these 12.5's had velocity numbers equivalent to my 16" with 77gr load. That doesnt mean the shorter tubes are just as fast, it means my load is just slow.

    Also I would like to point out that it isn't fair to compare chrono numbers. Different shooters using a different chronograph, and shooting different lots of even the same load. For a truly fair comparison we gotta shoot all the guns on the exact same day, with the same chrono, and use the same load from the same lot of ammo. Otherwise we are drawing inaccurate conclusions from the data being presented.
    "Just throw Krylon on it"

  9. #649
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironman8 View Post
    Did you happen to get any accuracy numbers?

    Also as another data point for those wondering if these barrels shoot faster...

    From my 12.5" Centurion:

    MK262: 2514, 2525 & 2539 FPS (three different 5 shot groups)
    IMI 77gr OTM: 2589 FPS
    Not from the chrono session, but I did get to shoot at 200 and 300 yards today on "paper" (electronic targets at the CMP range).

    All 5 shot groups

    At 200 yards:
    Wolf Gold- 4.25"
    XM193 - 6.3", 3.5", 4.6"
    Magtech 77gr - 2.5"
    IMI 77 - 2.25"

    300 yards:
    Wolf Gold- 9.2"
    XM193- 8", 8"
    Magtech 77 - 4.4"

    All groups were shot with a YHM Turbo K attached. Very happy overall. Bulk ammo stays under 3 MOA and the 5.56 77gr stuff is under 1.5MOA. The ES measurements don't show it but the XM193 actually grouped really well with 4 out of 5 rounds being tight and 1 usually being an outlier.

    Definitely agree that there is no special extra fast barrel. The 12.5 length definitely seems to deliver on useable velocity in a shorter package. For my purposes I'll stick with XM193 in this rifle for match use.

    I have some Barnes 5.56 70gr en route that I'll be sure to chrono next. It will probably be my pig load if it comes close to the numbers I've seen other people report.

  10. #650
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    Quote Originally Posted by littlejerry View Post
    Not from the chrono session, but I did get to shoot at 200 and 300 yards today on "paper" (electronic targets at the CMP range).

    All 5 shot groups

    At 200 yards:
    Wolf Gold- 4.25"
    XM193 - 6.3", 3.5", 4.6"
    Magtech 77gr - 2.5"
    IMI 77 - 2.25"

    300 yards:
    Wolf Gold- 9.2"
    XM193- 8", 8"
    Magtech 77 - 4.4"

    All groups were shot with a YHM Turbo K attached. Very happy overall. Bulk ammo stays under 3 MOA and the 5.56 77gr stuff is under 1.5MOA. The ES measurements don't show it but the XM193 actually grouped really well with 4 out of 5 rounds being tight and 1 usually being an outlier.

    Definitely agree that there is no special extra fast barrel. The 12.5 length definitely seems to deliver on useable velocity in a shorter package. For my purposes I'll stick with XM193 in this rifle for match use.

    I have some Barnes 5.56 70gr en route that I'll be sure to chrono next. It will probably be my pig load if it comes close to the numbers I've seen other people report.
    Excellent post. Thanks for sharing.

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