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Thread: Open-to-public institution’s ERT weapon choice, suppressed

  1. #1
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    Open-to-public institution’s ERT weapon choice, suppressed

    “Low knowledge base”

    Better informed now.
    Last edited by JediGuy; 09-01-18 at 14:58.

  2. #2
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    Why not just reach out to the local LE entity and see if you can set something up.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    im on my church security team...

    for us, long guns were a no go, since, like 95%+ of likely encounters are quick action(somebody bursts in). You cant walk around a church with a long gun(and I go to a cowboy church), so they would have to be in a safe, which requires time to get into, which in a high percentage of scenario's simply doesnt exist. I believe the police chief that helped us said a high percentage of incidents are focused around child abductions i.e. the ex husband(or wife)/boyfriend/baby daddy/baby momma knew that their ex went to church there so it was an easy time to go snatch up their kids... so we put a focus on that area of our church and have 1 person dedicated to that area all the time. Our other issue was car break ins, so we have somebody who wanders around the parking lot.

    Our church has a fair amount of CCW attendees(again, country cowboy church). It is known that we have a security team(the pastors and elders got up and made an announcement after we were all setup, that the chief of police helped draft) and those people, who are free and welcome to CCW, are NOT to engage in a situation that requires us to engage as we MAY shoot them. It was said more eloquently than that though.

    For us, its CCW of a standard carry gun(glock, m&p, sig, H&K, 1911, etc...). Low key. We did training with the local police and then we hit the range every other month as a group(every month if we can get everybody together).

    We have designated area's we are responsible for every week depending on who shows up. Front doors, back doors, nursery/childrens church, parking lot, etc...


    Get with your local police and I can GUARANTEE they will be more than happy to help you develop a formal plan as well as help with training. Ours had a formal training program already stood up and helped us do a site assessment(our building is VERY vulnerable).

    But again, for us, long guns were a no go...
    Last edited by rjacobs; 09-01-18 at 13:30.

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    rjacobs,
    Thank you. I’m not opposed to recommending pistols, but considering the desire to go suppressed and the necessity of very controlled shots, had leaned toward long guns.
    Good point on the accessibility... We would have two long guns max, with one at a manned “front desk” that is the main (though not absolutely the only) entrance, with access to both children and adult areas.

  5. #5
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    Also, I appreciate the pointing to local LE. We will be working with them, but right now, I’m not optimistic on a regular presence.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by JediGuy View Post
    rjacobs,
    Thank you. I’m not opposed to recommending pistols, but considering the desire to go suppressed and the necessity of very controlled shots, had leaned toward long guns.
    Good point on the accessibility... We would have two long guns max, with one at a manned “front desk” that is the main (though not absolutely the only) entrance, with access to both children and adult areas.
    Who has the desire to go suppressed? You? The pastor/elders who is asking you for advice?

    Who is wanting long guns? Again, you? Or the pastor/elders?

    And "necessity of very controlled shots" sounds like video gamer type shit... You arent the cops. Civil liability starts to come into play. Again remember when like 98% of bad dudes are confronted with "a gun" they turn to a blob of goo and give up, run off or kill themselves.

    Your first stop is the city police chief or the county sheriff... full stop until you go talk to those guys.

    They will come out and give you an assessment on your building. Ask all the "dumb" questions you want, ours was VERY gracious and not only told us why some stuff we thought of was a bad idea, he explained WHY it was a bad idea. He also recommended locking down our second building that contains the nursery and childrens church, but we couldnt do that because we didnt have crash bars on the doors for emergency exit(and we didnt have the funds to get new doors), so we dedicated 1 guy to that building.

    And you arent asking the police to show presence at your church, you are asking for their help developing a tactical plan as well as for training opportunities... Like I said, our chief had a 40 hour course already stood up for schools and churches and we are a "small" town of about 7k residents that is 80% rural. If you are in an urban environment I can almost GUARANTEE they have something setup already or can point you in a direction of a department that does.

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    Suppressed rifles for a church security team...L O f’ing L.

    Handguns and training are all you need. You’re not going to need suppressors either. Whatever your budget was for rifles/cans, spend the bulk of it on legitimate training and pick up some Glocks. That’s the smartest most legitimate purchase plan.
    Last edited by sidewaysil80; 09-01-18 at 14:12.

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    The idea of being suppressed is mine, but is used as a practical statement to protect hearing AND as an answer to what we expect will be a concern from congregants; we are very close to Chicago, and more and more people are coming over to our area with what I consider a less than realistic view of firearms and violence. From my perspective, if it is a viable option (it is for us), I would want to consider it.

    Long guns (PCC or otherwise) are not a necessity. Just another option that can be practically used in our building.

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    As mentioned, I’m not the expert on this, hence my asking.

    If something is a bad idea, I want to know. I’ve gone to a mega-church where .40 Glocks were mandated for their security team, and I observed nothing good about their training or the way they handled some sticky situations. We’re trying to avoid that.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by JediGuy View Post
    The idea of being suppressed is mine, but is used as a practical statement to protect hearing AND as an answer to what we expect will be a concern from congregants; we are very close to Chicago, and more and more people are coming over to our area with what I consider a less than realistic view of firearms and violence. From my perspective, if it is a viable option (it is for us), I would want to consider it.
    Your congregation should know NOTHING except "we have a security team in place, they have worked with the local LEO to develop a plan and receive training, we endorse them 100%".... Thats IT.... Thats the message to the congregation from your church leadership. Nobody knows who is on your team, what weapons, what your plans are, your training, etc... You dont stand up in front of them and say "we bought the latest and greatest whiz bang, suppressed, ghost guns, that can shoot 8000 rounds a second, with a shoulder thing that goes up" all for your protection...

    Again, and maybe your local LEO who helps you out will have a different opinion, but carbines or PCC or what have you, are most likely a non-starter.

    My church sits on 200 acres with a few different buildings...we could physically USE long guns, we have the distance, but it was decided 100% against them.

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