11.5" vs 16" suppressed vs unsuppressed pros and cons, thoughts

[BallisticHarmony]

Thought it would be interesting to just write down some attributes of both lengths and see which one comes out on top based purely on the number of positive and negative attributes. For the purpose of this comparison, each weapon's pros will be added to its total, and cons will be subtracted. This is looking through the perspective of a combat role. I went with 16" instead of 14.5" to create further distance from the shorty, though their performance is essentially the same.

11.5" 5.56 carbine length gas system


Pros
1. Weight
2. Maneuverability

Cons
1. Muzzle Report
2. Muzzle Flash
3. Recoil
4. Bullet Drop
5. Terminal Effective Range

Total: -3

16" 5.56 midlength gas system

Pros
1. Muzzle Report
2. Muzzle Flash
3. Recoil
4. Bullet Drop
5. Terminal Effective Range

Cons
1. Weight
2. Maneuverability

Total: +3

So far, looks like the middy's winning. However, when we throw in the suppressor monkey wrench, suddenly muzzle report and muzzle flash are now in the pro category for both and for the sake of argument are more or less equalized (for a combat environment). Additional suppressor-specific attributes can also be added to both pro categories. Finally, adding a suppressor to the weapon will subtract an additional .5 for both increased weight and decreased maneuverability.

11.5" 5.56 carbine length gas system, suppressed


Pros
1. Muzzle Report
2. Muzzle Flash
3. Weight (.5)
4. Maneuverability (.5)
5. Indoor Concussion
6. Team Communication
7. Situational Awareness

Cons
1. Recoil
2. Bullet Drop
3. Terminal Effective Range

Total: +3

16” 5.56 midlength gas system, suppressed


Pros
1. Muzzle Report
2. Muzzle Flash
3. Recoil
4. Bullet Drop
5. Terminal Effective Range
6. Indoor Concussion
7. Team Communication
8. Situational Awareness

Cons
1. Weight (-1.5)
2. Maneuverability (-1.5)

Total: +5


Wow! According to my completely non-scientific and non-peer-reviewed metrics, the shorty benefited much more from the can than the middy did, gaining 6 points as opposed to just 2. Interestingly, this is similar to what some folks have noticed in real-world situations: short rifles are great platforms for cans, whereas full-size carbines have enough on their plate already. In the end, though, it appears as though the 16" gun is still the better option, IMHO. I assume the 14.5" would be a good compromise between the two, while still leaning more towards the 16" attributes.

If you think I forgot about any pros or cons, lemme know so I can edit them in. Hope you enjoyed this little exercise and lemme know if you agree or disagree.

[redpillregret]

Who makes 11.5” mid-length uppers? That’s a new one on me.


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[RedDawn]

Who makes 11.5” mid-length uppers? That’s a new one on me.


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Faxon is the only one I know of.

[ggammell]

What in God’s name is this? “Wow!” You’re shocked at stuff people would figure out if they just read a little bit of what’s already on this forum. Well done.

[scooter22]

Mission dictates configuration.

I am familiar with 10.5", 11.5", 12.5", 14.5", and 16". The more I shoot 11.5" suppressed, the more I'm leaning towards the opinion that the additional length and weight of a suppressor may not be worth the trade off. I advocate for SBRs inside structures for obvious reasons. However, if we're talking about anything where engagement distance may be lengthened, I think 12.5" is the best starting point. 12.5" is the best compromise overall IMO.

Just my $0.02

[jackblack73]

By assigning a simple +/- 1 your methodology incorrectly assumes all categories are equal.

[BallisticHarmony]

*Forgot to quote the original panties in a bunch comment*

[BallisticHarmony]

Who makes 11.5” mid-length uppers? That’s a new one on me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Damn, knew I messed something up. That should’ve been 16”

[MistWolf]

Thought it would be interesting to just write down some attributes of both lengths and see which one comes out on top based purely on the number of positive and negative attributes. For the purpose of this comparison, each weapon's pros will be added to its total, and cons will be subtracted. This is looking through the perspective of a combat role. I went with 16" instead of 14.5" to create further distance from the shorty, though their performance is essentially the same

If you think I forgot about any pros or cons, lemme know so I can edit them in. Hope you enjoyed this little exercise and lemme know if you agree or disagree.

I agree with your conclusions, but would re-arrange your matrix thus-

11.5" 5.56 carbine length gas system


Pros
1. Weight
2. Maneuverability

Cons
1. Muzzle Report
2. Muzzle Flash

Neutral
1. Terminal Range

Total: 0

16" 5.56 midlength gas system

Pros
1. Terminal Range

Cons
1. Muzzle Report

Neutral
1. Weight
2. Maneuverability
3. Muzzle Flash


Total: 0

11.5" 5.56 carbine length gas system, suppressed

Pros
1. Muzzle Report
2. Muzzle Flash

Cons
1. Additional Maintenance

Neutral
1. Weight
2. Maneuverability
3. Terminal Range
Total: 1

11.5" 5.56 midlength gas system, suppressed


Pros
1. Muzzle Report
2. Muzzle Flash

Cons
1. Additional Maintenance

Neutral
1. Weight
2. Maneuverability

Total: 1

Improved "Comms" and "Situational Awareness" comes from less Muzzle Report and less Muzzle Flash. It's cheating to have both. I think the Muzzle Report from an unsuppressed 16" is enough to disrupt comms. It should be a Con. Muzzle Flash should be a Neutral.

Recoil is a wash across the board. Assuming the above examples are truly combat ready, they will be gassed right and have the right spring and buffer. Assume they are set up to function with and without a suppressor, the recoil reduction from a suppressor is likely to be offset by back pressure.

Changing from a carbine gas system to a middy gas system does not increase velocity or terminal effects.

Shorties lose their weight & maneuverability advantage when a suppressor is added. Weight and Maneuverability for the 16/14.5 inch AR and the suppressed 11.5 inch ARs should be a Neutral rather than a Con

I think Terminal Range for the shorties should be moved to the Neutral category. Most engagements will be at close range. It's been pointed out over and over that longer engagements are routinely handed over to support weapons. I also think the difference in bullet drop out to 300 yards isn't enough to factor.

Suppressors introduce additional maintenance. Shooters also have to be aware of potentially hot suppressors.

[BallisticHarmony]

What in God’s name is this? “Wow!” You’re shocked at stuff people would figure out if they just read a little bit of what’s already on this forum. Well done.

Sorry I ruined your day with a simple experiment. Could you be a little more aggressive and confrontational?