PX4 CC vs CZ P07?

[1168]

I like my PX4’s, but I’ve never touched a P07. I carry them, shoot them, and occasionally compete with them.

Sam said- “I was not doing something right with the trigger (DA or SA), I was snatching the trigger.” I think you may have encountered the strange stacking I mention below.

On mine I ended up going with medium grip inserts instead of small. I liked the small grips better in dry fire, and I even preferred them for shooting for a while. But I found that the hump seems to give me a little buffer from dropping shots a little low when smashing the trigger in a hurry. It might have something to do with the fact I mostly shoot 92 series guns, but going bigger than you think you want on the backstrap might help you, too.

I also found that the trigger would stack sometimes. It was inconsistent, and never seemed to show up in dry fire. I think maybe the hammer spring binds sometimes. Cured with a LTT 12lb hammer spring and a “competition trigger assembly” with some grease.

My PX4’s are accurate, boringly reliable, and very soft shooting. I find the compact model to be just a little smaller than a G19, but with equal capacity. I rarely clean them, they just keep chugging.

[Sam]

Sam said- “I was not doing something right with the trigger (DA or SA), I was snatching the trigger.” I think you may have encountered the strange stacking I mention below.

On mine I ended up going with medium grip inserts instead of small. I liked the small grips better in dry fire, and I even preferred them for shooting for a while. But I found that the hump seems to give me a little buffer from dropping shots a little low when smashing the trigger in a hurry. It might have something to do with the fact I mostly shoot 92 series guns, but going bigger than you think you want on the backstrap might help you, too.

I also found that the trigger would stack sometimes. It was inconsistent, and never seemed to show up in dry fire. I think maybe the hammer spring binds sometimes. Cured with a LTT 12lb hammer spring and a “competition trigger assembly” with some grease.

My PX4’s are accurate, boringly reliable, and very soft shooting. I find the compact model to be just a little smaller than a G19, but with equal capacity. I rarely clean them, they just keep chugging.

I can't argue with what you said about accuracy, reliability and its soft recoil. The compact is shorter than the G19 but "chunkier" in the slide/rail area. I used the LTT 12 lb hammer spring and my gun had the medium back strap. I don't know if I noticed the trigger stacking you mentioned. It might have been there but I couldn't tell. I do know that my 07 has better DA and SA pull.

[yoni]

The following was just posted over on the CZ forum.

" This NONSENSE is being revived by people out of ignorance. CGW developed the rollers to correct those issues a couple years ago.
Hopefully David at CGW will respond here and clear up this malarkey"

[m4brian]

The following was just posted over on the CZ forum.

" This NONSENSE is being revived by people out of ignorance. CGW developed the rollers to correct those issues a couple years ago.
Hopefully David at CGW will respond here and clear up this malarkey"

Yes - the CGW parts have been out for years.

The Short Reset Kit not only reduces some of the reset, it also REDUCES overtravel (good). Larger rollers increase overtravel. IN some cases (like ONE of mine) the kit made mine fail to cycle in DA because my roller was too small. So CGW sent me another that made it work. But, all this is OLD HAT.

The CZ stock roller is NOT as nice or even and this causes some of the staginess of the trigger.

[1168]

The compact is shorter than the G19 but "chunkier" in the slide/rail area.

Yeah, the G19 has a slimmer slide, but a chunkier grip. 6 of one, half dozen of the other. Both are easily concealed.

I’m afraid to try the P07, because HH6 will not approve of switching platforms again.

Edit: after reviewing the specs, I don’t think the P-07 should be compared to the PX4 Compact. Its closer in size to the the PX4 fullsize.

[ralph]

The following was just posted over on the CZ forum.

" This NONSENSE is being revived by people out of ignorance. CGW developed the rollers to correct those issues a couple years ago.
Hopefully David at CGW will respond here and clear up this malarkey"

They could always call CGW and ask, and reoprt back..just sayin..

[yoni]

I made a thread over at CZ forum and am waiting for CGW to reply in writing .

[GJM]

I made a thread over at CZ forum and am waiting for CGW to reply in writing .

I have spoken to CGW multiple times, and they just returned three of my P09 pistols where they installed new rollers and machined the sears to address this issue. The Cajun folks are good people, and doing their best to address a CZ Omega design problem. What I would be really interested in, is hearing from CZ USA. As another data point, did CZ address the P10 striker issue, or just make a line change without acknowledging it?

[m4brian]

I made a thread over at CZ forum and am waiting for CGW to reply in writing .

Sir - would you be kind enough to state exactly what the problem is, what CGW is saying about it, and what the fix is (that they evidently are working). I read the OP from the ignition problem, but he had a CGW's gun.

Thanks - I'm open to there being a problem.

[GJM]

To save others the pain of reading through many pages on that other forum thread, I will try to provide a brief summary from memory. I have owned P07 and P09 pistols for a number of years, both in stock form and modified by CGW with their Pro kit. Never noticed any issue besides the obvious -- replace the firing pin retaining pin for durability dry firing, be aware of trigger return springs, and stock trigger pulls are nowhere near as good as CGW triggers.

In May, I started shooting a pair of CGW P09 pistols in USPSA Carry Optics division, both direct milled by Primary Machine for a DP Pro. One pistol was three or four years old and another from CGW this year. A few times in practice and matches, I had a failure to ignite on an initial DA trigger press. I have been using American Eagle 115 exclusively for practice and matches, and thought this odd, but never thought too much about it. This started occurring more frequently, and I contacted CGW to discuss. It was so sporadic, I couldn't recall whether there was a pattern of a particular pistol. I initially spoke with David, and he said he had no idea what was happening, but offered that he would send me a FedEx label for them to look at the pistols. We discussed the possibility of the chamber dimension being out of spec. I decided to keep shooting the pistols as I was in a busy match time, and the problem was so intermittent.

The problems became more frequent, and when I looked at the suspect cartridge there was no primer strike at all. With some trial and error, I realized that occasionally the hammer was stopping on the shelf, shy of striking the primer, and that depending upon how I pressed the trigger, I could replicate the problem at will. I made a video, showing a loaded pistol and it failing to fire or firing based on how i pressed the trigger, and posted that video in the P09 thread on PF.

My next contact was with Scott at Cajun, who was terrific to speak with. He told me he had become aware of this problem, when it happened to another customer's pistol. He told me that they checked a fairly large number of completely OEM P07 and 09 pistols, and approximately half of them exhibited the problem, suggesting an Omega trigger design issue. There was some back and forth as to fixes for the issue, and I learned that the P07/09 pistols were assembled by the factory with different size rollers, depending upon tolerance stacking, to try to get this right.

I then shipped three pistols exhibiting this issue frequently back to them, and they said these three had this issue "about as bad as they had see." Since the issue with two of them got worse with my high round count shooting, it suggested that wear of the parts could be a factor. To fix my pistols, they went to smaller rollers, and machined approximately ten thousands off the sear. With some starts and stops, it seems as if Cajun is developing a part to fix this. Whether this is a roller, sear or otherwise, I am not sure, and I believe this is still fluid.

As others became aware of this, and started messing with their pistols, quite a few were able to replicate the problem. To what extent the problem happens depends upon the tolerance stacking of your individual pistol, what roller is installed, any parts you may have installed after market, how much finger you put on the trigger, and whether your finger contacts the back of the frame as you complete the press. This issue is specific to the Omega trigger system, and not the classic CZ 75 family of pistols. Cajun is obviously aware of the issue and working it. I have yet to hear a peep out of CZ USA on it.

For me, this is a deal breaker because it has bitten me in matches, and I am also unwilling to carry this pistol defensively knowing that my press may be imperfect and result in the pistol not firing when intended. What others decide is completely up to their experience and risk assessment. I think it is a real shame as I very much enjoyed shooting the pistols, and have done some of my best match shooting with them.