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Thread: M4 replaces Tavor in Israeli Commando Brigade

  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Safari View Post
    I'd go for the one with the lightest weight.

    BTW, what was the original reason the Israelis dropped the Galil as a front-line weapon? Being primarily a product-improved AK it should have remained their first choice if the AK design were all that wonderful. Was it too expensive? Too heavy? Too reliant on labor-intensive manufacture and assembly?
    I would suspect that the Galil was dropped as a front line weapon because it offered no advantages compared to the lighter and more ergonomic M16A1s which Israeli was getting for free or reduced cost from various U.S. military aid programs.
    Last edited by crusader377; 09-19-18 at 12:32.

  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by crusader377 View Post
    I would suspect that the Galil was dropped as a front line weapon because it offered no advantages compared to the lighter and more ergonomic M16A1s which Israeli was getting for free or reduced cost from the U.S. military aid programs.
    Probably so. In that case, what is the need for the Tavor if the M4 is readily available? How is the military procurement climate different now?

  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Safari View Post
    Probably so. In that case, what is the need for the Tavor if the M4 is readily available? How is the military procurement climate different now?
    I would suspect a couple of reasons why the Tavor came in existence. First, Although the U.S. provides Israel with large amounts of military aid, that aid can be fickle and it makes a lot of sense for Israel to still have the capability of making modern small arms especially since they are surrounded by enemies and potential enemies. Second, having a thriving small arms industry is good for export reasons as well. Finally, many of Israeli M16s were provided for free during and immediately after the 1973 War (Operation Nickle Grass) whereas any new M4 would have to be paid from the annual Military Aid budget from the United States.
    Last edited by crusader377; 09-19-18 at 12:59.

  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Safari View Post
    In that case, what is the need for the Tavor if the M4 is readily available? How is the military procurement climate different now?
    Obama.

    I would ass-u-me after having him has the US President for eight years with his anti-Israel / pro-Palestinian sentiments the Israelis wanted something in house in case aid packages dried up. Honestly I'm surprised that IWI has not manufactured their own M4 variant by now.
    Last edited by Moose-Knuckle; 09-19-18 at 15:39.
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  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moose-Knuckle View Post
    Obama.

    I would ass-u-me after having him has the US President for eight years with his anti-Israel / pro-Palestinian sentiments the Israelis wanted something in house in case aid packages dried up. Honestly I'm surprised that IWI has not manufactured their own M4 variant by now.
    The development and plans for widespread adoption of the Tavor began in the mid-to-late 1990s and adoption began during the tenure of George W. Bush.

    The history - which Israel is all too aware of, even if Americans are eager to forget it - is that the US has engaged in arms embargoes against Israel and Israel is not about to tie themselves to anything that can so easily be cut off ever again.
    " Nil desperandum - Never Despair. That is a motto for you and me. All are not dead; and where there is a spark of patriotic fire, we will rekindle it. "
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  6. #76
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    deleted
    Last edited by RetroRevolver77; 12-18-18 at 17:58.

  7. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoringGuy45 View Post
    I have no dog in the fight, but if you look you up similar tests on YouTube, you could probably easily find a ton of X95s passing similar tests. I’ve seen videos of ARs and AKs being mud and sand tested side by side with the AR passing and the AK failing. I’m sure I could find this same test being run with both the AR and AK failing and a Tavor passing.

    Pretty much every major service rifle today is capable of handling dirty, extreme conditions
    O really?


  8. #78
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    To be fair I dont think the Tavor failed too badly but it certainly didnt do as well as the AR

    Last edited by vicious_cb; 09-19-18 at 23:09.

  9. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Safari View Post
    Probably so. In that case, what is the need for the Tavor if the M4 is readily available? How is the military procurement climate different now?
    Internal politics.Combined with the need to use the money on bigger ticket items.

    Galil was a terrible rifle, too heavy for the caliber.

  10. #80
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    Another take on reliability of Tavor - https://www.tactical-life.com/firear...-torture-test/

    Why Israelis replaced M4 with Tavor - https://iwi.us/why-the-idf-chose-the-tavor-over-the-m4/

    Can't say that I've ever dumped mud into my Tavor. What I can say is that I've put over 1000 rounds through it with 0 issues and seen 4 other people put a bunch of rounds through there rifles with 0 issues.

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