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Thread: M4 replaces Tavor in Israeli Commando Brigade

  1. #11
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    Remember that this is just 4 units, that will be going back to the M4 or commando rifle.

    I have heard nothing about any more units dropping the Tavor.

  2. #12
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    Other than specialized units, isn't the IDF pretty much committed to the Tavor?

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack7.62 View Post
    Maybe this is a IMI/IDF marketing ploy, same with the Galil, adopt a rifle, sell a bunch of overpriced semi's to American suckers then go back to the M16/M4.
    Or, to look at it another way: does the IDF get the M4's as part of a foreign aid package or at a substantially better price than it can produce the Tavor? Sometimes money is the main factor.

    What are the supposed advantages of the Tavor? Local production vs. import? Bullpup is "better"?
    Last edited by Doc Safari; 09-05-18 at 15:48.


    W.I. Thomas: "If men define situations as real, they are real in their consequences".

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Don't Surf View Post
    Keeping the pattern seen with pretty much every nation with an issued bullpup: Regular army gets the space gun, special operations chooses the M4.
    Yup, I posted this in another thread, just the one's I can think of off the top of my head:

    .... the UK issues their conventional troops the L85 IW bullpup, their SOF units get Colt Canada C8 carbines (a US M4 variant), Aussies issue their conventional troops the STG-77 bullpup while their SOF units get Colt M4's (possibly Colt Canada C8's I forget which), the Kiwis issue their conventional forces the F88 Steyr bullpup and their SOF units like the Aussies get Colt M4's and or Colt Canada C8's.
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  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Safari View Post
    Or, to look at it another way: does the IDF get the M4's as part of a foreign aid package or at a substantially better price than it can produce the Tavor? Sometimes money is the main factor.

    What are the supposed advantages of the Tavor? Local production vs. import? Bullpup is "better"?
    The main advantage to the bullpup is it is easier to use in and out of vehicles. Tavor provides local jobs.

    If Israel takes American made M16 then we can use aid money to buy them.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by yoni View Post
    The main advantage to the bullpup is it is easier to use in and out of vehicles.

    IIRC the troops ride to the front in the Merkava or modern equivalent? (I don't know what they use now). That makes sense then that they would want the Tavor for most units.

    Tavor provides local jobs.

    Not an insignificant factor, and that's why politicians often do not get the "best" for their troops. They opt for what will get them re-elected.
    Last edited by Doc Safari; 09-05-18 at 16:45.


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  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moose-Knuckle View Post
    Yup, I posted this in another thread, just the one's I can think of off the top of my head:

    .... the UK issues their conventional troops the L85 IW bullpup, their SOF units get Colt Canada C8 carbines (a US M4 variant), Aussies issue their conventional troops the STG-77 bullpup while their SOF units get Colt M4's (possibly Colt Canada C8's I forget which), the Kiwis issue their conventional forces the F88 Steyr bullpup and their SOF units like the Aussies get Colt M4's and or Colt Canada C8's.
    Aussie regular forces use F88s. Aussie SOF use Colt M4s.

    Kiwis have replaced their F88s with LMTs. Their SOF also use LMTs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Safari View Post
    IIRC the troops ride to the front in the Merkava or modern equivalent? (I don't know what they use now). That makes sense then that they would want the Tavor for most units.
    The Merkava can carry, IIRC, only about a half-dozen troops and is really more of an exigent circumstances thing, rather than SOP. The Israelis do have a number of MBTs that have been converted into APCs, including the Namer which is built on the Merkava MkIV chassis/hull. The Israeli military, like most Middle-Eastern militaries, relies heavily on mechanized infantry.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Safari View Post
    Not an insignificant factor, and that's why politicians often do not get the "best" for their troops. They opt for what will get them re-elected.
    Israel has been subject to international arms embargoes - including by the United States - in the past, so the ability to domestically produce as many of their defense systems as possible has been an on-going concern for Israel.
    Last edited by MountainRaven; 09-05-18 at 16:52.
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  8. #18
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    Prior to the whole arm brace pistol evolution, the Bullpup was the easiest way to get a short rifle caliber weapon.

    I own a Tavor and one day for fun want to make a real short X95 in 300 blk.

    But for anti terror work give me a Commando type rifle.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by MountainRaven View Post
    Israel has been subject to international arms embargoes - including by the United States - in the past, so the ability to domestically produce as many of their defense systems as possible has been an on-going concern for Israel.
    So, here's the kicker: Why wouldn't they produce a local version of the M4? The info contained in the TDP is pretty much public knowledge if only "unofficially." It's not like the IDF couldn't produce a BCM or DD-grade rifle.


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  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Safari View Post
    Or, to look at it another way: does the IDF get the M4's as part of a foreign aid package or at a substantially better price than it can produce the Tavor? Sometimes money is the main factor.

    What are the supposed advantages of the Tavor? Local production vs. import? Bullpup is "better"?
    Highly doubt money is a factor here. The IDF isn’t going to tell a high end unit, “here, take this cheap foreign rifle instead of a domestically produced superior weapon.”




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