Man killed carrying inside his own house

[LowSpeed_HighDrag]

She acted as a civilian, not as a police officer in any official capacity. (gnashing of teeth with cIvilIAns aRE thE POlicE!!!). She acted without due regard and with poor judgement. Her actions were reckless at best, malicious at worst. Either way, criminal, and she was rightly convicted and received what most would agree is a lenient sentence. You guys can twist it all you want, but this isn't a "thin blue line vs the world" case, just a dumb broad with a gun in a state where lots of dumb broads have guns.

[jpmuscle]

You won’t find any argument here. I’d be more interested in addressing the absolutely laughable standard of PID and “feeling threatened” that LEO’s are offered. Almost every shooting I’ve seen has standards of identification that wouldn’t have flown for my Scout/Sniper platoon in Mahmudiyah in the mid 2000’s, but somehow it works in Dallas.

That’s another crux of the issue. Folks haven’t a clue how use of force laws actually work but then the same folks get all uppity about things.


Look, I’m not saying this chick isn’t responsible, culpable, etc. She certainly is guilty
of an innocent man’s death, without question. I’m saying the facts don’t support the outcome. She’s a dumb-ass but the facts do not support any premeditation and if she no shit thought (unless there’s evidence suggesting otherwise) that she was entering and inside her own dwelling (Texas is big on defending your home and property yes?) then how is anyone shocked at the actions taken?

Mens rea is a crucial fact that needs to be ascertained and I don’t see it. Her being a dumbass and likely having no business being LEO has no bearing on the legal elements being decided. Manslaughter all day long. Murder? Nah fam. Thankfully other states have been delineate a difference with respect to crafting statutes.


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[jpmuscle]

I don't think you understand what, "premeditated," means.

It means that you decided to kill someone. When you made that decision relative to the actual killing part isn't relevant. She could have decided it a decade ago, when she got out of her car in the garage, or the moment before she pulled the trigger (or at some point after pulling the trigger before her victim expired).

Short version: Unless she didn't intend to pull that trigger, it's premeditated. It's murder.

Then every cop who’s ever shot and killed some is guilty because they’ve made that decision consciously or subconsciously long before they ever presented their weapon.

So no, that’s a completely illogical statement to make and you’re being obtuse.


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[MountainRaven]

That’s another crux of the issue. Folks haven’t a clue how use of force laws actually work but then the same folks get all uppity about things.


Look, I’m not saying this chick isn’t responsible, culpable, etc. She certainly is guilty
of an innocent man’s death, without question. I’m saying the facts don’t support the outcome. She’s a dumb-ass but the facts do not support any premeditation and if she no shit thought (unless there’s evidence suggesting otherwise) that she was entering and inside her own dwelling (Texas is big on defending your home and property yes?) then how is anyone shocked at the actions taken?

Mens rea is a crucial fact that needs to be ascertained and I don’t see it. Her being a dumbass and likely having no business being LEO has no bearing on the legal elements being decided. Manslaughter all day long. Murder? Nah fam. Thankfully other states have been delineate a difference with respect to crafting statutes.

If she didn't intend to pull the trigger, it's manslaughter.

If she did intend to pull the trigger, it's murder.

I don't recall hearing that she ever, at any point, said that she did not intend to pull the trigger.

Then every cop who’s ever shot and killed some is guilty because they’ve made that decision consciously or subconsciously long before they ever presented their weapon.

So no, that’s a completely illogical statement to make and you’re being obtuse.

I don't think you're familiar with the term, "justifiable homicide."

And, no, I'm not being obtuse.

She committed murder and she got a slap on the wrist for it.

ETA:

So we're clear:

What you're saying is, literally, if someone who is armed walks into your house and shoots and kills you, they have not murdered you because they did not intend to kill you when they illegally entered your house. You're literally giving every home invader carte blanche to break into houses and kill their residents and skate because, lol, it wasn't murder.

This woman intentionally entered the someone else's apartment. She intentionally drew her firearm. She intentionally settled her front sight over an innocent man's chest. She intentionally pulled the trigger. She intentionally put a bullet through his heart, killing him.

This is literally the same as someone intentionally entering your house. Intentionally drawing a gun. Intentionally putting their front sight on your chest (or your wife's, your kid's, whatever). Intentionally pulling the trigger. And intentionally putting a bullet through your heart (or your wife's or your kid's), killing you.

There is nothing different about the situation except that she's a woman with a badge.

[jpmuscle]

Holy **** you’re being dense


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[Coal Dragger]

The jury said she’s guilty, they heard the case. We didn’t.

[26 Inf]

I don't think you understand what, "premeditated," means.

Pretty sure I have a handle on it, and she did not premeditate the crime.

Apparently premeditation is not a requirement for a murder conviction in Texas.

Actually, after reading the Texas Statutes (19.01 through 19.05) I can understand why Texas executes so many people.

[26 Inf]

That is murder anywhere. WTF are you talking about?

That's pretty much an inaccurate statement there doc.

Many states have murders codified along the lines of Capital, Murder 1, Murder 2, Manslaughter, Involuntary Manslaughter, etc.

In most states a murder charge would require at least one of the elements of premeditation or intent, versus acts of omission or negligence which generally get you in the realm of manslaughter.

[jsbhike]

That's pretty much an inaccurate statement there doc.

Many states have murders codified along the lines of Capital, Murder 1, Murder 2, Manslaughter, Involuntary Manslaughter, etc.

In most states a murder charge would require at least one of the elements of premeditation or intent, versus acts of omission or negligence which generally get you in the realm of manslaughter.

That is my understanding of it also.

Doc is correct that had roles been reversed, Botham Jean likely would have been charged with capital murder though.

[jsbhike]

Death during DUI gets a murder conviction.

https://kfor.com/2018/05/24/texas-ma...at-killed-son/