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Thread: Do NFA rules apply for SHTF?

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by elephant View Post
    During times of extreme natural disasters like Wildfires, Hurricane Katrina/Harvey/Maria/Rita etc., the 2016 blizzard in the North East, the 2004 Indonesian tsunami, and even the 2011 Japanese tsunami, it can take weeks for a first responder/law enforcement QRF to assemble
    Can you find one verifiable instance where this has been true in the continental United States? Yes, recovery can take weeks, even months in some cases, but disruption of basic law & order in a real world disaster is measured in hours or at worst days. There are non-disaster situations where disruption of basic services has lasted longer than it would in a disaster (look at some of the riots in areas controlled by Democrats). In an actual disaster, outside assets (state and federal) will be on scene a lot faster than you seem to think.

    The United States is an enormous and very varied area. The scale of a "nationwide" disaster is virtually unimaginable. Such a disaster would not be SHTF, but truly TEOTWAWKI.

    Quote Originally Posted by elephant View Post
    I have been dwelling on this for some time, a few years to be exact. Is it necessary to consider building a non serialized (80%) F/A MK18 ghost just for a SHTF scenario? Or possibly a 10.3"-11.5" upper that can be switched more easily? Is a "solvent trap" a realistic alternative to a suppressor?
    I probably should bother responding since the first thing I must say that that anyone talking about "ghost" guns is almost certainly a troll.

    But, on the slim possibility that you are sincere and simply living in a fantasy world, let me point out that you are not going to be building this mythical Call of Duty "F/A MK18 ghost" gun in a post-SHTF situation. In the unlikely event that you could find someone with the skills to enable you to accomplish this, it would need to be done PRE-SHTF, and the NFA most certainly does apply then.

    Without training and skills that you clearly don't have, a full auto rifle would simply be a great way to waste ammo while waiting for some serious individual to resolve all your problems in a permanent manner.

    And, of course, anyone who might have the skills to make and properly use such a weapon would almost certainly also have to good sense to avoid publicly discussing his intent (or at least willingness) to commit multiple felonies.

    Yes, a solvent trap is a realistic alternative to a suppressor (provided you have no need for accuracy) -- the "solvent trap" is also a realistic way to have a long term vacation at a federally managed greybar hotel.

    Quote Originally Posted by elephant View Post
    Is a M4/AR15 good enough to be the only gun you need?
    This is another example of a question where if you have to ask, you wouldn't begin to understand the answer.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by georgeib View Post
    I've always thought that this wasn't the best idea. I mean, with the exception of a close family member, if you don't already have the sense to be armed, there is a very dubious advantage in arming you. Do you really want to arm people that didn't have the sense to arm themselves, AND learn how to become proficient with their weapons, before the SHTF? Do you really want these people armed, and on YOUR side?
    There is some validity to your concern. Certainly you would not want to set up a table at the street corner signing up random passers-by and handing out rifles. On the other hand, the notion of a lone survivor in a SHTF situation is completely unrealistic, especially if the situation continued long enough for WROL be be an issue. So, it might well be necessary to arm a few trusted by unprepared neighbors. How many days can you go without sleep? How many directions can you watch at one time? How effectively can you guard your position while obtaining, preparing, and consuming meals?

    Another, completely different, issue with the "only gun you need" question is that no one gun is effective for all purposes.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by yoni View Post
    full auto is for things belt fed
    True... But perhaps more importantly, full auto is for suppressive fire -- and usually area suppressive fire. The notion of precisely aimed full-auto fire is very nearly an oxymoron, and certainly not something that can be accomplished with a hand-held or bipod-supported automatic rifle. Full-auto rifle fire might be of some limited use if you need to mow down a horde of zombies at short range, but with a bit of practice aimed fire will still be more effective as well as not wasting ammo.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Bullseye View Post
    This is the test. If someone is checking your equipment, you are probably not in a SHTF. If nobody cares and only asks you about more, your S has H the Fan.
    The problem is that the S won't be hitting that F for very long. And after the S stops hitting the F, lots of people will be remembering or reconstructing what you did if it was noteworthy, and running around machine gunning your neighbors probably counts as noteworthy.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jammer Six View Post
    No natural disaster nor man-made disaster other than war has ever affected the entire continental U.S.

    Natural disasters other than volcanos don't cross mountain ranges. If your problem is a volcano, leave. Volcanos don't affect the entire continental U.S.

    The rule of law, therefore, will continue to exist and will be back.

    Meanwhile, we'll go to wherever the lights are still on, the coffee still hot and credit cards still work. We'll be back when it's all sorted out.
    Undoubtedly the most sensible comment in this entire thread.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jammer Six View Post
    Yeah. That's what I said. It's never happened.

    I'll tell you what, though. If it does, it'll be your problem. Some of us will just die.

    Edit: may seem like a flip answer, but it's not. Finite resources need to be spent preparing for events that have a higher chance of actually happening. Better to spend resources reinforcing preps for earthquakes rather than building a spaceship for a last ditch chance at survival on another yet-to-be-discovered planet.

    At some point, we die. Better to start there, and work backwards until you arrive at what are reasonable preps for you in your life, situation and prospects.

    And we cheat. We're almost certainly older than you are, and that makes a lot of decisions easier. None of our plans, for instance, involve running. Or bicycles. Or walking with any pack that weighs more than about ten pounds. If your situation is different, I would expect you to make different plans.


    In the end, though, you should plan on the rule of law returning. If it doesn't, one way or another, we won't be back, either.
    Thank you for injecting a dose of reality.

    I see too many self-styled "Preppers" and "Survivalists" who focus on a single boogeyman event of TEOTWAWKI proportions without consideration of other much more likely lesser scenarios and without consideration of what-happens-next.

    For those who insist on preparing for TEOTWAWKI, the question you need to face up to is OK, what happens after? Is the disaster actually survivable? If you do survive the disaster itself, what then? I've met survivalists who really believe that after their three-year stock of long-term-storage food supplies runs out, they will able to carry on a normal life of subsistence farming - peacefully bartering with their neighbors and living in a Hollywood version of the Westward Expansion. They never consider that after the initial die-off phase, there will be another phase resembling the Mad Max movie franchise. Most are not prepared with either the equipment or skills to seriously attempt even 19th Century subsistence farming, when the reality is at least as likely to be 12th Century feudalism.

    Bottom line: If you are not already living on a fully self-supporting totally off-the-grid subsistence farm, in a community of other fully self-supporting totally off-the-grid family farms, then you are not prepared for TEOTWAWKI

  7. #57
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    The other fantasy common to preppers and rampant in survivalist is the "we won't get hit" strategy.

    They spend a lot of time shooting from behind barricades upside down under water and no time practicing emergency surgery.
    "When I have your wounded." -- Major Charles L. Kelly, callsign "Dustoff", refusing to acknowledge that an L.Z. was too hot, moments before being killed by a single shot, July 1st, 1964.

    Black Lives Matter. All confederate symbols and monuments need to go.
    Proud to live in a sanctuary city.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by elephant View Post
    I know laws are laws..... and I know most of us desire to be upright and law abiding citizens.

    Hypothetically, if something really bad happened, even a possible global event, I would assume our "leadership" would be in bunkers a mile below the earths surface with years of provisions while you and I had to live through it, that is, until the dust settled and they came out to assume there previous roles. During times of extreme natural disasters like Wildfires, Hurricane Katrina/Harvey/Maria/Rita etc., the 2016 blizzard in the North East, the 2004 Indonesian tsunami, and even the 2011 Japanese tsunami, it can take weeks for a first responder/law enforcement QRF to assemble, it could be days before most people are able to be treated or even see a doctor. Most I would assume would die waiting for help.

    During these times of struggle, lets say a full scale natural disaster that effected most of the lower 48 that caused byproducts like economic troubles, fuel shortages, food shortages, mass looting, would you worry about NFA laws or would you disregard all non-moral based laws all together? Basically, just stick to the 10 commandments.

    I have been dwelling on this for some time, a few years to be exact. Is it necessary to consider building a non serialized (80%) F/A MK18 ghost just for a SHTF scenario? Or possibly a 10.3"-11.5" upper that can be switched more easily? Is a "solvent trap" a realistic alternative to a suppressor?

    Is a M4/AR15 good enough to be the only gun you need?
    Why not buy FA and silencers now?
    If the shtf, no, i would not worry about it. Assuming you cant afford FA(I know tou can) I dont see anyone “needing” FA either.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jammer Six View Post
    No natural disaster nor man-made disaster other than war has ever affected the entire continental U.S.

    Natural disasters other than volcanos don't cross mountain ranges. If your problem is a volcano, leave. Volcanos don't affect the entire continental U.S.

    The rule of law, therefore, will continue to exist and will be back.

    Meanwhile, we'll go to wherever the lights are still on, the coffee still hot and credit cards still work. We'll be back when it's all sorted out.


    But what about The Walking Dead? Full autos for everyone!

  10. #60
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    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by Jammer Six View Post
    Yeah. That's what I said. It's never happened.
    No. What you said was...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jammer Six View Post
    Natural disasters other than volcanos don't cross mountain ranges. If your problem is a volcano, leave. Volcanos don't affect the entire continental U.S.
    The entire North American continent has been affected in our planets past by multiple naturally occurring phenomena. To say it will never happen again while humans inhabit the planet is imperceptive.




    Quote Originally Posted by n4aof View Post
    Bottom line: If you are not already living on a fully self-supporting totally off-the-grid subsistence farm, in a community of other fully self-supporting totally off-the-grid family farms, then you are not prepared for TEOTWAWKI
    If we're using intellectual honesty here (lolirl) then we can only arrive at one conclusion, no one can be prepared for TEOTWAWKI.

    Our distant ancestors were not prepared for the LGM (last glacial maximum) albeit they were much better suited for it due to their mastery of primitive survival skill sets and they kept the species going.
    "In a nut shell, if it ever goes to Civil War, I'm afraid I'll be in the middle 70%, shooting at both sides" — 26 Inf


    "We have to stop demonizing people and realize the biggest terror threat in this country is white men, most of them radicalized to the right, and we have to start doing something about them." — CNN's Don Lemon 10/30/18

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