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Thread: Are people really "tougher" than they used to be?

  1. #31
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    To answer the OP, no our criminals are not tougher, but they are a whole bunch bigger on the average. They also tend to survive being shot at a much higher rate. If you live long enough to make it to the emergence room these days, handgun wounds are pretty survivable.

    Andy

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyLate View Post
    To answer the OP, no our criminals are not tougher, but they are a whole bunch bigger on the average. They also tend to survive being shot at a much higher rate. If you live long enough to make it to the emergence room these days, handgun wounds are pretty survivable.

    Andy
    I would be inclined to doubt that that is solely due to people being bigger and tougher these days and I suspect that it is more likely due to more advanced pre-hospital and ED care. I see a lot of injured people in the ED. I don’t perceive any kind of physiologic superiority of your average ED patient. I’ve been seeing those patients over the last 40 years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hmac View Post
    I would be inclined to doubt that that is solely due to people being bigger and tougher these days and I suspect that it is more likely due to more advanced pre-hospital and ED care. I see a lot of injured people in the ED. I don’t perceive any kind of physiologic superiority of your average ED patient. I’ve been seeing those patients over the last 40 years.
    I did say they were bigger, not tougher. I stand by that statement. The average over 20 American male weight is 195.7 lbs, in 1960 the average weight was 166 lbs (source link at bottom of post). That is a big change and means more penetration is required to hit vital organs in the torso.

    You are absolutely right, they survive because of improved care. I meant to emphasize that, obviously I did a poor job.

    Andy

    https://www.healthline.com/health/me...weight-for-men
    Last edited by AndyLate; 09-08-18 at 19:47.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyLate View Post
    I did say they were bigger, not tougher. I stand by that statement. The average over 20 American male weight is 195.7 lbs, in 1960 the average weight was 166 lbs (source link at bottom of post). That is a big change and means more penetration is required to hit vital organs in the torso.

    You are absolutely right, they survive because of improved care. I meant to emphasize that, obviously I did a poor job.

    Andy

    https://www.healthline.com/health/me...weight-for-men
    Well, you bet they are bigger, but that mostly means fatter. The technical consequences of operating on those generally-larger people in the OR isn't that big a problem since most are done laparoscopically these days, but the co-morbid conditions that go along with that obesity most definitely makes for a higher complication rate and more difficult post-operative care.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyLate View Post
    I did say they were bigger, not tougher. I stand by that statement. The average over 20 American male weight is 195.7 lbs, in 1960 the average weight was 166 lbs

    You are absolutely right, they survive because of improved care. I meant to emphasize that, obviously I did a poor job.
    Where this really hit me between the eyes was on a visit to the U.S. Calvary Museum at Fort Riley. The uniforms and accoutrements of the Calvary Officer of that era looked as if they were made for a prepubescent male of today.
    "If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said a faster horse." - Henry Ford

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    Quote Originally Posted by SomeOtherGuy View Post
    So we have three pages of "when I was your age" type posts about the modern soyboy, but OP's question was this:



    I guess you could interpret that more than one way, but I read it as "does the typical bad guy take more gunshot wounds to stop his violent assault than was true 80 years ago?"

    A person's will and mental toughness is a factor in this, but I have to think that size and bone strength is also important. Just as deer and elk are similar but differ in size, modern well-fed felon may be mentally weaker but physically larger than 19th century malnourished-and-stunted felon.
    Yup. That's what I was getting at.

    I will add that in years long past, career criminals knew when their own got shot, they died of infection and other complications often, even if they lived through that day. And even if they survived all that they had a high chance of being executed for their crimes.

    These day's, career criminals know more buddies, family, and enemies who were shot and survived. And of course, they know of the revolving prison doors. Those that live that life I mean.
    Last edited by Ron3; 09-08-18 at 21:54.

  7. #37
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    Yes.

    Improved prehospital care, ERs, modern trauma care, etc. do change a lot of outcomes.

    The size thing is relative.

    The 25 year old logger that weighs 180 with ten percent body fat is going to bring over 160 pounds of lean body mass to the fight. The 25 year old urban kid weighing 220 with 30% body fat is being less than 160 pounds of lean body mass to the fight.
    “Where weapons may not be carried, it is well to carry weapons.”

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    Stronger maybe but not “tougher” necessarily. Exclude military, Olympic athletes and possibly pro sports athletes. The rise of the soy boy and ultra feminazi has pretty much pussified our society compared to WW2 and prior generations. Milennials are the new “strong”.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by duece71 View Post
    Stronger maybe but not “tougher” necessarily. Exclude military, Olympic athletes and possibly pro sports athletes. The rise of the soy boy and ultra feminazi has pretty much pussified our society compared to WW2 and prior generations. Milennials are the new “strong”.
    As others have said, there's a very wide range now. Somehow I don't picture a soyboy stalking me back to my car and trying to rob me in a mall parking lot. Who knows. There have been some very entertaining videos of what happens when leftist soyboys overestimate their capabilities in stupid street fighting.

    I have little doubt that the average male, among all US males, is weaker in all ways than 80 years ago - sadly. I've read anecdotal articles about studies on grip strength, etc. that seem to prove this scientifically. However, I don't know if that would necessarily be true of the criminal classes (whether white, black or other) because those groups would have been terribly malnourished 80+ years ago, and for the most part they are not at all malnourished today.
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