Some Thoughts on SHTF basics

[Doc Safari]

SHTF will be defined differently by different folks but I don't see to many people having gun fights in the wake of a hurricane, tornado, earthquake, or flash flood . . . NOLA and Puerto Rico not withstanding.

IF you have to fire on looters it's a possibility. My "wake-up call" was the violence during the Rodney King riots. I saw those Koreans with AK's and decided any town could face such a crisis.

[vicious_cb]

Not even an EMP--how about "lens breaking"? Anything with glass in it can be broken although most Tier 1 optics are plenty tough for most bumps and hits.

That also applies to iron sights esp folding ones which I find MORE susceptible to damage than most fighting grade optics.

[Doc Safari]

That also applies to iron sights esp folding ones which I find MORE susceptible to damage than most fighting grade optics.

At least where the ACOG is concerned this is supposedly ABSOLUTELY TRUE. I've heard more than one story of duty-issued ACOG's that would take punishment that damaged or disabled iron sights.

Looking at photos of IDF soldiers with their beat-up Meprolights I'd say that's a GTG optic also.

AND.....we've all seen Larry Vickers' torture tests of the Aimpoint.

Still....glass breaks. So it's best to have irons in the mix as well.

[Dr. Bullseye]

SHTF will be defined differently by different folks but I don't see to many people having gun fights in the wake of a hurricane, tornado, earthquake, or flash flood . . . NOLA and Puerto Rico not withstanding.

In California, if the earthquake were big enough, whole sections of the state would evacuate either voluntarily or involuntarily. Epidemic disease immediately would follow this event. Millions of people are coming your way and somehow expect you to provide for them. Even preppers bugging out may have lost their destination or never really had one. Now they are funneling towards your rural community. Your only hope is a roadblock, enforced by firearms, and a system by which only close friends and relatives of those in that community gain entry. The outsiders are not going to be too happy and now they are sure you have water and food since you are guarding it so well. Their kids are hungry. You tell me what is going to happen.

[ccosby]

There was a lot of good info a few years ago that was posted online. Looks like the original thread is gone but here is some info.

http://tacticalintelligence.net/blog...nd-account.htm

Overall a good read.

[usmcvet]

I was just mulling in my mind some of the "common sense" considerations to always keep in practice if you're really planning to survive a major long-term disaster, war, or other upheaval that disrupts your normal existence more or less permanently.

This list is just my "Top Ten" so feel free to add yours:

Some thoughts on SHTF:

1. Pick a weapon you can shoot well.

Should be a no-brainer but a lot of people pick what they think has a lot of stopping power, holds lots of ammo, etc., without regard to whether or not they can hit the broad side of a barn with the darn thing.



2. Have spares of that weapon

I used to think having a lot of spare parts was the way to go, but unless you have experience actually repairing firearms, you may find you don't have the dexterity or don't have the tools to replace parts on your weapons. Plus, all the spare parts in the world won't repair a kaboom. It's better to have a few spare parts you can easily replace (like RSA's for example), and have spare weapons for catasrophic failures or things you just can't fix.

3. Have lots of magazines and ammo

You can never, I repeat, NEVER have too much of either. I'm not going to recommend a quantity of either because each person's needs and storage capabilities are different, but you should have several thousand rounds of ammo and over 100 magazines. Mags break and wear out. If 100 seems a lot, then buy what you are comfortable with.

4. Have optics you can use effectively, and, once again, have spares.

There's nothing like having one indestructible Aimpoint and on the first day of the Apocalypse it goes down for whatever reason. Employ one good, military grade optic and have spares of it. Get good with it. Sight it in perfectly and practice with it at different ranges. Have plenty of cleaning supplies for it.

5. Train at least sometimes with iron sights.

Despite the fact that you have a good quality optic that you are good with, and several spares, you may be far from those spares when your optic goes down. Have BUIS on your weapon and train with that, too.

6. Get some exercise with your gear.

There's nothing like having a reliable weapon with plenty of mags and ammo, all the tactical doodads, and a vest to carry all the extra stuff in--only to find you can't walk 50 feet with all of that without collapsing. If personal strength is a problem, work your way up to it. Carry as much as you can and exercise with it until you don't notice the weight. Add more equipment as you are able to carry it. Don't forget that "water" is part of your equipment, and it ain't lightweight.

7. Have boots that freaking fit and are comfortable.

Suppose the SHTF and you have to walk 60 miles to the next town. During wartime a lot of refugees only have their tootsies as their means of transportation and have to traverse long distances to escape the calamity or locate supplies, etc. Learn about foot care.

8. Have the mindset that you are going to survive.

If you are going to be the person who'd just as soon kill himself as to live amongst the ruins, then why are you spending all this money on goodies?

9. Have extra pairs of glasses if applicable.

Don't be like the guy in the Twilight Zone episode that breaks his only pair of glasses after the A-bombs go off. Get your prescription updated and get several pairs of glasses. Not knowing much about contacts, I suspect they would be a liability in primitive living conditions.

10. Try to stay fit and healthy without meds as much as possible.

I know this is impossible for some ailments, but if losing some weight might get you off the blood pressure or diabetes meds so much the better. You may not have access to them when the SHTF. My dad had some ailments that diet and exercise couldn't fix, so he always told me, "There's no point in me planning to live after the Apocalypse because I'm dead without my prescriptions." If you are in that boat, then you are unfortunately wasting your money planning to live after society collapses. The best you can plan for is a temporary interruption to your normal life.

I think number 10 is the most important one.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Moose-Knuckle]

IF you have to fire on looters it's a possibility. My "wake-up call" was the violence during the Rodney King riots. I saw those Koreans with AK's and decided any town could face such a crisis.

Looting and general lawlessness in the wake of a disaster is a concern/threat but when I think SHTF I'm thinking complete collapse of civilization like what you referenced, "The Road" or even a Red Dawn scenario.

With that said, the riots in the wake of the LAPD officer's trials were most definitely "SHTF" for anyone in the affected area, especially if you were a Korean-American or White person. That level of violence and property destruction is a valid threat but I cannot recall a time it has happened post natural disaster, that fact does not mean that we will never see it however.

In California, if the earthquake were big enough, whole sections of the state would evacuate either voluntarily or involuntarily. Epidemic disease immediately would follow this event. Millions of people are coming your way and somehow expect you to provide for them. Even preppers bugging out may have lost their destination or never really had one. Now they are funneling towards your rural community. Your only hope is a roadblock, enforced by firearms, and a system by which only close friends and relatives of those in that community gain entry. The outsiders are not going to be too happy and now they are sure you have water and food since you are guarding it so well. Their kids are hungry. You tell me what is going to happen.

I can appreciate that scenario, but when in the US have citizens been engaged in roving gun battles in the wake of a natural disaster of any kind; wildfires, earthquakes, blizzards, hurricanes, tornadoes? When and if the New Madrid Seismic Zone and or the Yellowstone Caldera goes then we will most certainly see pandemonium on a scale not witnessed by humans since the last ice age.

I'm not saying none of these things will never happen, I plan for them accordingly. I was merely trying to point out that "SHTF" means different things to different people. I wish in the "prepper" online community we could establish terms that define scenarios accordingly kind of like TEOTWAWKI, WROL, etc.

[Moose-Knuckle]

There was a lot of good info a few years ago that was posted online. Looks like the original thread is gone but here is some info.

http://tacticalintelligence.net/blog...nd-account.htm

Overall a good read.

Selco has his own website and blog.
https://shtfschool.com/


Here is another good one from a guy who lived through the economic collapse of Argentina.
http://ferfal.blogspot.com/

[Doc Safari]

... when in the US have citizens been engaged in roving gun battles in the wake of a natural disaster of any kind; wildfires, earthquakes, blizzards, hurricanes, tornadoes? When and if the New Madrid Seismic Zone and or the Yellowstone Caldera goes then we will most certainly see pandemonium on a scale not witnessed by humans since the last ice age.

I'm not saying none of these things will never happen, I plan for them accordingly. I was merely trying to point out that "SHTF" means different things to different people. I wish in the "prepper" online community we could establish terms that define scenarios accordingly kind of like TEOTWAWKI, WROL, etc.

Don't forget an economic collapse. Eventually Social Security and the welfare state WILL go broke (after they've robbed everyone of their financial assets, of course). When the EBT cards are empty, guess what class of society will start looking into home invasions for them great big rich houses near the golf course?

I like to tease anti-gun rich people all the time. They ask me why I need an AR15 and I tell them, "So I can come get your stuff when my welfare payment bounces." Most of 'em don't laugh. Wonder why?


(I'm kidding. I don't tell them that. Would love too, though).

[Doc Safari]

NEW LIST:

10A. Basic medical knowledge: covered in a previous post.

11. Only store food that you can carry

It's nice to think you'll be able to grow your own food and "live off the land", but what if you really do have to bug out? Whatever method you use to bug out, any food you have to live on should be in a format portable enough to take as much with you as you can. I like the "25-year shelf life" food of various brands. Same goes for water. It's nice to have your own well, especially if you live in an isolated mountain cabin or something, but also have a portable water supply you can take with you.

12. Whatever your bugout vehicle is: make sure it's a reliable one.

If you're getting ready to purchase a bugout vehicle: Great. Do your research. Find out which ones are the most durable, reliable, require the fewest repairs, use common grade unleaded gas, etc. Don't believe the hype: find out for yourself. Just because a vehicle is advertised as "trail rated" doesn't mean that's not just a marketing label. Which brings up a point: four-wheel drive is your friend. So are other accoutrements that you might need if you have to bug out via terrain other than nice paved roads. Shovels to dig a wheel out if you get stuck, for example. The last thing you want is to head for the hills and then not be able to go any further.

In the absence of all this: if you are skilled at auto repairs then by all means purchase a vehicle you know you are going to be able to repair. Almost all modern vehicles are heavily computerized and require special diagnostic equipment. If you still have a 1973 Land Rover that you know how to fix--fine and dandy--but most people won't be in that boat. Make sure whatever vehicle you have that you keep up with maintenance schedules even if it's a pain to spend the extra money. If you have to bug out you may not have much warning. That's not the time to find out your CV joints are shot.

Frankly, if you are young enough and fit enough, it might be wise to consider a horse as much a bug out vehicle as a gas-powered machine.

13. Follow Actual News, not politics

While the MSM keeps you up-to-date on the Kardashians, you may miss a story that a nuke plant in California could be leaking. Do you need to start making plans to move now in a controlled, leisurely fashion? Or will you be the one that waits for things to blow up before you bug out? It's been said that in Nazi Germany a lot of Jews were in denial as to what was happening and simply stayed in Germany until it was too late. Is that you?

14. Part Ways with People Who "Don't Get it"

I know this is a tough one. Not everyone can do it. But are there family members or friends that you know will be a liability once the SHTF? Does Uncle Louie present such a challenge to your preps that he tries to talk your wife out of prepping? Do you have a sibling who you just know is going to be the first one to turn you in once the shit storm starts? Start now putting distance between yourself and those people. No one is saying you have to dump them, but be prepared to "plant" stories that steer them away from endangering your preps. Tell Uncle Louie, "Yeah, the wife just doesn't like guns so I guess we're going to get rid of all of them." You may have to lie now, but that's better than coddling a security risk in the long run. Better, if you are in a "nest" of hostile relatives and in-laws, are you able to get another job and relocate? Can you find someone else to spend Thanksgiving with? The whole idea is your survival. Are you more concerned with hurting someone's feelings or in living a day after the Barbarian Hordes parachute in and take them while they say, "This isn't happening!" Again, not everyone has the gumption to offload friends or family members who pose a risk to their survival. I understand. It's just a thought.

15. Shut the "F" Up


The first rule of prepping is that you do not talk about your prepping. You do not show your weapons, stored food, or other supplies to ANYONE outside your immediate family--UNLESS THEY ARE LIKE-MINDED AND ARE PREPPING TOO. If they've showed you their stash already chances are it's safe to show them yours. There is strength in numbers, so the more preppers that can join up in a time of crisis, the better. But what you DON'T want is every neighbor, friend, and relative to think of "your house" as the go-to destination for all things food, guns, ammo, medical care, etc. Keep a low profile. Do not put pro 2A bumper stickers, survival-related or other "outdoorsy" stickers on your vehicle. Do not wear T-shirts advertising your pro 2A stance or how many hikes you've been on. You want your neighbors to think you're useless to them to rely on for goodies--unless you knowingly "out" yourself because you know there can be a mutual exchange of skills and the like. Do not wear "Colt" or "BCM" or "Molon Labe" baseball caps--EVER. Hide any suggestion of gun ownership from potential contractors that might have to come into your house for some sort of repairs, etc. A good friend of mine lost all his guns because he allowed an electrician to see his gun safe. True story.

My girlfriend and I even go so far as to speak "in code" when on the phone. Knowing the NSA or other alphabet-soupers collect meta-data, or that a child who might blab to her friends might be listening, we do not ever use the G-word (gun). We have a code for when we want to go to the range. We also have a bugout word chosen. If one of us ever utters 'THE BUGOUT WORD' (which of course I will not disclose), the other one will know that it's not a drill and to meet at the designated location for final departure to the bugout location.

Which leads us to:

16. Have a bugout location, and preferably backups


Do some recon. Pick bugout locations preferably near food, water, and other things you might need WELL IN ADVANCE of the need. Practice your route(s) to each bugout location, and time how long it takes to get to them. Travel to them in all kinds of weather. My girlfriend and I have three picked out already. If one is out of the question, we have two others we can go to. If you are able to own the property at your bugout location, so much the better. Stock each bugout destination with at least enough supplies to be comfortable with. You might have to bugout again, so stick to portability here, too. Of course, you don't tell anyone about your bugout locations, either. I will also go so far as to say that one of our bugout locations might require us to be "a little persuasive" with who is already there, but we know they will be friendly toward us when the time comes.

Once again, I probably haven't thought of everything. Add your own comments at will.