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Thread: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not.

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moose-Knuckle View Post
    But I still fail to see how someone who VOLUNTEERS for military service helps the poor and disadvantaged.
    In two ways:

    The first is by setting an example. I served with a lot of guys from "the wrong side of the tracks" and when the younger folks from the neighborhood see them living well when they return on leave, it shows them there is a better life than having kids, stealing, selling drugs and smoking weed.

    The second way is simpler yet - if no one volunteered, we would have conscription. We will always have a standing army. The poor always suck hind title when it comes to a draft.

    Andy

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moose-Knuckle View Post
    So you just troll about military service in a thread about the poor and downtrodden. Mmkay.

    Well. if you recall, you were the one who inspired me to tell my narrative for society, so I don't get the troll - I have always felt that universal service would make our society stronger.

    Well my grandfather and four of his six brothers did serve for the duration of WWII and my father enlisted for Vietnam prior to the draft. When they and my uncles (who are Vets) heard I was talking to a recruiter my senior year they all about shit kittens and gave me a talking to.
    Sounds like your family did better than mine, I helped ours catch up, both my sons joined. Be grateful that they had the experience in the service that helped them understand it wouldn't be a good fit for you.
    "If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said a faster horse." - Henry Ford

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  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moose-Knuckle View Post
    So you just troll about military service in a thread about the poor and downtrodden. Mmkay. Well my grandfather and four of his six brothers did serve for the duration of WWII and my father enlisted for Vietnam prior to the draft. When they and my uncles (who are Vets) heard I was talking to a recruiter my senior year they all about shit kittens and gave me a talking to.
    Just an FYI: The draft that ended in 1973 began in 1940 and did not end in 1945 or 1953. So your father did not enlist prior to the draft, he enlisted prior to being drafted or otherwise simply volunteered (plenty of men - and women volunteered for service during the Vietnam War without the imminent threat of being drafted hanging over them. The draft was intended to ensure that the military would have the manpower Congress and the President deigned it to need in the event that there were an insufficient number of volunteers enlisting).
    " For Augustus, and after him Tiberius, more interested in establishing and increasing their own power than in promoting the public good, began to disarm the Roman people (in order to make them more passive under their tyranny)[.] "
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    Dell'Arte della Guerra (The Art of War)

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moose-Knuckle View Post

    Karl Marx wrote a book about that.
    No, he didn't. Karl Marx despised peasants and would've classified many of the people we're talking about as the "dangerous class". Not sure how he'd feel about universal service, but I'm guessing he wouldn't be a fan.

    The movie "Lions for Lambs" is generally garbage, but I always thought the two college guys who do their presentation on some kind of service program (and then enlist) was an interesting concept/plot device, but it's lost in the political messaging garbage.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyLate View Post
    The first is by setting an example. I served with a lot of guys from "the wrong side of the tracks" and when the younger folks from the neighborhood see them living well when they return on leave, it shows them there is a better life than having kids, stealing, selling drugs and smoking weed.

    There are folks who enlist when they are of age to escape poverty, check out Mykel Hawke's story sometime. Others like my wife's grandfather join up simply to be fed. He was homeless from an early age, mother died when he was young and had a very abusive alcoholic father. Lied about his age and the Navy in WWII was all to eager to have him. Lot of stories form then of underage boys lying to get in so they could get three hots and a cot.




    Quote Originally Posted by 26 Inf View Post
    Sounds like your family did better than mine, I helped ours catch up, both my sons joined. Be grateful that they had the experience in the service that helped them understand it wouldn't be a good fit for you.
    Didn't realize there was a contest. First ancestor of mine who served fought in the French and Indian War, then again in the War of Independence. Not so much a fit for me as they wanted me to have different opportunities. And several of them did encourage me to join the USAF, I was talking with an Army recruiter. I had an ex GF who's father was a Marine then a lifer in the AF, he even jumped my ass for looking at Army and told me if he had it to do again he would have gone USCG. Had a supervisor of mine who was former Army tell me the same thing.




    Quote Originally Posted by MountainRaven View Post
    Just an FYI: The draft that ended in 1973 began in 1940 and did not end in 1945 or 1953. So your father did not enlist prior to the draft, he enlisted prior to being drafted or otherwise simply volunteered (plenty of men - and women volunteered for service during the Vietnam War without the imminent threat of being drafted hanging over them. The draft was intended to ensure that the military would have the manpower Congress and the President deigned it to need in the event that there were an insufficient number of volunteers enlisting).
    Just an FYI: the Selective Service conducted a lottery to determine the order of call to military service in December of 1969. That is what people are referring to when talking about the draft for the Vietnam War.




    Quote Originally Posted by sundance435 View Post
    No, he didn't. Karl Marx despised peasants and would've classified many of the people we're talking about as the "dangerous class". Not sure how he'd feel about universal service, but I'm guessing he wouldn't be a fan.

    The movie "Lions for Lambs" is generally garbage, but I always thought the two college guys who do their presentation on some kind of service program (and then enlist) was an interesting concept/plot device, but it's lost in the political messaging garbage.
    Did I say Karl Marx?! Oops, I meant Charles Dickens.
    "You're living on a tax farm as free range humans . . ."

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  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moose-Knuckle View Post
    Just an FYI: the Selective Service conducted a lottery to determine the order of call to military service in December of 1969. That is what people are referring to when talking about the draft for the Vietnam War.
    Yes, that's how the draft works.
    " For Augustus, and after him Tiberius, more interested in establishing and increasing their own power than in promoting the public good, began to disarm the Roman people (in order to make them more passive under their tyranny)[.] "
    - Niccolò Machiavelli, 1520 -
    Dell'Arte della Guerra (The Art of War)

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by MountainRaven View Post
    Yes, that's how the draft works.
    In hindsight to save you from semantics perhaps I should have worded my post differently by saying that my father enlisted before the Selective Service lottery held in December '69.
    "You're living on a tax farm as free range humans . . ."

    "The Trump election will be the biggest **** YOU! ever recorded in human history and it will feel good." — Michael Moore

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moose-Knuckle View Post
    In hindsight to save you from semantics perhaps I should have worded my post differently by saying that my father enlisted before the Selective Service lottery held in December '69.
    Roger that.

    " For Augustus, and after him Tiberius, more interested in establishing and increasing their own power than in promoting the public good, began to disarm the Roman people (in order to make them more passive under their tyranny)[.] "
    - Niccolò Machiavelli, 1520 -
    Dell'Arte della Guerra (The Art of War)

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